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Episode
Neuroscientist Reveals How to Build Muscle & Lose Fat with Neurochemistry Strategies - Dr. Sherr
~107 min
Episode Brief·YouTube

Neuroscientist Reveals How to Build Muscle & Lose Fat with Neurochemistry Strategies - Dr. Sherr

Thomas DeLauer
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TL;DR

The four things you'd lose by not watching

4 items

TL;DR

The four things you'd lose by not watching

4 items
1

To build muscle and lose fat effectively, you must shift from sympathetic 'fight or flight' to parasympathetic 'rest and digest' immediately after workouts — training is catabolic, recovery is where growth happens.

2

Prolonged cortisol from overtraining or mental stress mixed with physical training is catabolic; the hormetic stress dose needed to build muscle shifts with fitness level.

3

Simple behaviors like nasal breathing with longer exhales (3 sec in, 5 sec out), lying down, eating calmly, and taking 5–10 minute breaks post-workout powerfully activate parasympathetic recovery.

4

GABAergic supplements (kava, honokiol, theanine, Dr. Sherr’s Trocom, etc.) can accelerate nervous system downregulation when relaxation is hard.

Protocols

Concrete recipes — what, when, how much, and why

5 items

Intra-Workout Parasympathetic Downshift via Lying Down & Nasal Breathing

WhatBetween sets during a workout, lie down (when safe/clean) and nasal breathe with extended exhales to rapidly shift into parasympathetic state before the next set.
WhenImmediately after a hard set, during rest periods.
DoseUnspecified duration; host does it until feeling a 'whoosh' shift.
For whomAnyone seeking to optimize intra-workout recovery, especially those struggling with prolonged sympathetic activation.
WhyAllows faster recovery between sets, maximizes sympathetic drive for the next effort, and starts the recovery process early, leading to greater overall gains with potentially shorter workouts.
CaveatsHost avoids doing this on dirty public gym floors due to infection risk; may be awkward in crowded gyms.

Dr. Sherr and the host agree that deliberately cycling between sympathetic (during the set) and parasympathetic (between sets) dramatically improves the training stimulus-to-recovery ratio. The host describes his personal experience of flopping on the ground and nasal breathing to feel a full-body 'whoosh' of relaxation, after which he can attack the next set with renewed intensity. This protocol challenges the conventional gym ethos of staying amped up and moving constantly during rest periods.

Mechanism

Lying down mechanically reduces the need for postural muscle tone and signals safety to the brain, promoting parasympathetic activation. Nasal breathing, particularly with longer exhales, stimulates the vagus nerve and increases nitric oxide, which further facilitates relaxation and vasodilation. The combination rapidly downregulates catecholamines (norepinephrine, epinephrine) and shifts dominance from sympathetic to parasympathetic.

Personal experience

Thomas DeLauer: 'I won't do it in a public gym because I don't want to get a staph infection, but like I'll flop on the ground, okay? And like nasal breathe, just hardcore like just parasympathetic and I can feel the best way to describe it is a whoosh, you know, and you know what happens, right? Floods over my body.'

You can get sensitized to that so that you can do it intra workout and then be able to maximize your sympathetic drive the next set, but then drop it down to parasympathetic. you're going to get the most bang for your buck for a much even shorter workout potentially than you would have otherwise.

Also said
“if you want to build, you have to relax. I can't I can say that like it's so hard for people to realize that”— Encapsulates the counterintuitive core of the protocol.

Post-Workout Parasympathetic Transition Routine

WhatImmediately after exercise, dedicate 5–10 minutes to calm down using sitting still, nasal breathing (e.g., 3 sec inhale, 5 sec exhale), sunlight exposure, or eating a meal in a relaxed state — before jumping into work or other high-stress activities.
WhenRight after the training session ends.
Dose5–10 minutes minimum.
For whomEveryone, but especially those who train before work or immediately jump into mentally demanding tasks.
WhyPrevents the prolonged cortisol elevation that becomes catabolic; initiates the parasympathetic recovery phase needed for muscle repair and growth hormone action.
CaveatsIf eating, must be done calmly, without phone or multitasking; otherwise, digestive parasympathetic activation is blunted.

Dr. Sherr stresses that the rapid downregulation of stress hormones is critical. He cites the observation in nature: prey animals, after escaping a predator, exhibit a shivering response that quickly calms their nervous system, after which they resume grazing. Humans lack this automatic 'off switch' due to chronic social and anticipatory stress. Therefore, conscious post-workout rituals are necessary. He also notes that professional athletes like LeBron James prioritize breathwork and relaxation as much as training, contributing to their longevity.

Mechanism

Post-exercise, growth hormone surges to facilitate muscle repair, but its anabolic effects are blunted if the body remains in sympathetic dominance. Behaviours like sitting, lying, slow exhales, and eating stimulate the vagus nerve, which releases acetylcholine and shifts the autonomic nervous system toward parasympathetic (GABA) dominance. This promotes blood flow to the gastrointestinal tract and initiates protein synthesis and tissue repair.

just take like five or 10 minutes. That's all you need to do. And then just take breaks throughout the day as well as you're doing, you know, whatever else that you're doing to try to ... getting into that parasympathetic state.

Also said
“if you can change your positioning like you talked about lying down even if you don't nasal breathe and you lie down you are going to get more parasympathetic that way.”— Simplest mechanical intervention.
“eating a meal if you can prepare yourself to eat the meal. The meal actually kind of forces you to be a little bit parasympathetic as well because you have to if you have food in your stomach.”— Meal as a parasympathetic anchor.

Extended Exhale Nasal Breathing (3 in, 5 out)

WhatNasal breathing with a 3-second inhale and 5-second exhale, repeated for multiple cycles.
WhenAny time stress spikes, between sets, before sleep, or as a daily reset.
DoseAt least 5 cycles; can be done multiple times per day.
For whomUniversal; used by Dr. Sherr with his children for bedtime.
WhyRapidly activates parasympathetic nervous system, builds nitric oxide, and improves recovery and performance.

The breathing pattern is presented as the easiest entry point for people who struggle with relaxation. Dr. Sherr and Thomas DeLauer both endorse it as a practical, non-pharmacological tool. The host notes that many guests on his channel have converged on nasal breathing as a key recovery tool.

Mechanism

Longer exhales relative to inhales stimulate the vagus nerve via baroreceptor feedback, increasing heart rate variability and shifting autonomic balance toward parasympathetic. Nasal breathing also boosts nasal nitric oxide production, which acts as a vasodilator and may enhance oxygen uptake in subsequent sets.

Personal experience

Dr. Sherr: 'I can I do it with my kids at night and then they're done. They go to bed. It's easy.'

the easiest one I find for people is just 3 seconds in and 5 seconds out. Even if you can just do that five times.

Also said
“Just longer nasal exhale. Then you're kind of building up the nitric oxide as well. Not to mention it's probably going to be a performance booster because the nitric oxide build up that you're getting as well”— Adds a performance benefit beyond relaxation.

Calm Post-Workout Meal Consumption

WhatEat a post-workout meal while sitting down, without distractions, to promote parasympathetic activation and digestion.
WhenWithin a reasonable window after training, but especially before rushing into other tasks.
DoseDuration of a calm meal.
For whomAnyone who struggles to relax post-workout or habitually eats while working.
WhyFood in the stomach triggers parasympathetic activation via the enteric nervous system, aiding both digestion and systemic recovery.
CaveatsEating while stressed, on the phone, or multitasking negates the parasympathetic benefit; must be intentional.

Dr. Sherr references Dr. Mike Israetel's observation that post-workout meal timing may matter less for protein synthesis than for the parasympathetic shift it forces. The host agrees that many people, especially parents, often eat while cooking or doing chores, missing the recovery benefit. The protocol encourages viewing the post-workout meal as a deliberate recovery practice, not just refuelling.

Mechanism

The presence of food stimulates the vagus nerve and increases blood flow to the mesenteric vasculature, which requires a shift away from sympathetic dominance. This 'rest and digest' state not only aids nutrient absorption but also signals to the body that the acute threat is over, facilitating muscle repair.

Personal experience

Dr. Sherr: 'like me and you have four kids and you're like you're sometimes eating while you're while you're cooking and then you've just exercised from downstairs and that that's not a good way to get parasympathetic. like you want to be like resting, sitting down, eating and then you will see the benefit overall.'

eating a meal if you can prepare yourself to eat the meal. The meal actually kind of forces you to be a little bit parasympathetic as well because you have to if you have food in your stomach.

Also said
“it will try to get more blood flow to your your messenteric nervous system like where you're actually feeding the blood vessels that go to your intestines to help you eat digest your food.”— Physiological justification.

GABAergic Supplement Stack for Rapid Relaxation

WhatUse compounds that enhance GABAergic activity (e.g., kava, honokiol, agmatine, magnolia bark, passion flower, theanine, or Dr. Sherr’s product Trocom) to quickly shift into parasympathetic mode when relaxation is difficult.
WhenPost-workout or in high-stress situations where behavioral techniques alone are insufficient; the host uses theanine pre-workout and Trocom intra-workout for certain activities.
DoseProduct-specific; Trocom claims to work within 15–30 minutes.
For whomIndividuals with high baseline stress, trouble sleeping, or those who push training very hard and need external support to downregulate.
WhyPharmacologically facilitates the parasympathetic transition for those who struggle to 'switch off' naturally.
CaveatsIndividual responses vary; some may cause sedation; timing matters (e.g., not during maximal strength sets where sympathetic drive is needed).

Dr. Sherr lists multiple natural GABAergics as options, noting his company’s Trocom (a blend). The host adds that he uses theanine pre-workout to soften caffeine’s edge, and has experimented with Trocom intra-workout during running or pull workouts where staying calm is beneficial. They caution that not every workout should be done in a sedated state; the goal is to toggle between sympathetic and parasympathetic, not eliminate sympathetic drive entirely.

Mechanism

These compounds act as positive allosteric modulators of GABA-A receptors or increase GABA levels, directly inhibiting sympathetic outflow and promoting the parasympathetic nervous system. Theanine also increases alpha brain waves, producing calm alertness.

Personal experience

Thomas DeLauer: 'I'll even take theanine like pre-workout uh because like I'll have caffeine and then the theanine kind of chills me out, but I found that I come down a little faster.' ... 'I've tried using your troll calm again ... intra workout and for certain workouts like uh running when I'm trying to like maybe stay calm. Uh it works really really really well. Pull workouts you said, right?'

if you're in a pinch and you want to calm down the nervous system and you have a hard time doing it's not always easy to stop. Not always easy to relax. I get that. then enhancing the GABA system quickly can really help.

Also said
“So you can use things like cava or like something like some GABAurgic kinds of things like other molecules or compounds that can help you.”— Broadens the category beyond one product.

What's new

Personal practice updates, fresh positions, predictions

3 items

parasympathetic-to-build-muscle paradigm

The idea that muscle is built during recovery, not training, and that deliberately shifting into parasympathetic state via behavior and neurochemistry is a major lever for hypertrophy and fat loss.

Why this matters: This reframes the fitness dogma of 'more work = more results' and places equal weight on nervous system recovery as on mechanical tension and nutrition.

Background

Previously, bodybuilding focused almost exclusively on mechanical tension, metabolic load, and sleep for recovery. The role of autonomic nervous system states between sets and immediately post-workout was largely ignored.

Dr. Sherr argues that modern life keeps us in chronic low-grade sympathetic activation (social stress, email, multitasking), which blunts the body's ability to shift into the parasympathetic mode needed to repair muscle. He points out that ancestral stress was dichotomous — on or off — whereas today's stress is persistent, making deliberate downregulation essential. The concept of a 'fitness hormetic curve' is introduced: the optimal stress dose for muscle gain varies with training history, and exceeding it without recovery leads to catabolism and injury. He emphasizes that mixing mental stress (like checking email between sets) adds another layer of sympathetic drive using the same neurotransmitters, compromising gains. The message is that relaxation is not passive but a skill to be practiced intra- and post-workout.

Personal experience

The host Thomas DeLauer shares that he has recently adopted lying down and nasal breathing between sets (even in the gym, though avoiding public floors) and experiences a 'whoosh' feeling of parasympathetic shift, which allows him to maximise sympathetic drive on the next set. He also uses theanine pre-workout to smooth out the comedown from caffeine.

if you want to build muscle you have to shut off your sympathetic nervous system. You have to relax that stress fight or flight response that you're using to build muscle in the first place.

Also said
“The training itself is catabolic. The training itself is not when you're building muscle.”— Directly reinforces the shift from training as growth to recovery as growth.
“if you can become more parasympathetic, if you can relax more, you will see bigger gains with less work that you need to do in general.”— Actionable promise: more results with less volume if recovery is optimized.

mixed-stress physiology

Adding mental stress (email, phone) during workout rest periods compounds sympathetic load because physical and psychological stress use the same neurotransmitters.

Why this matters: Offers a concrete, often-overlooked reason why some people fail to progress despite intense training: they never allow their nervous system to exit fight-or-flight between sets.

Background

Many gym-goers use rest periods to check phones or worry about work, believing it doesn't affect the physical workout.

Dr. Sherr explains that norepinephrine, epinephrine, and cortisol are the main stress hormones that provide focus and strength during exercise. When you check an upsetting email or stress about a meeting between sets, those same hormones stay elevated because the brain doesn't differentiate between physical and psychological threat. This prevents the parasympathetic recovery that should occur between sets and after the workout, effectively prolonging the catabolic state. The host emphasizes this is especially critical for middle-aged individuals who already have higher baseline stress.

Personal experience

Thomas DeLauer mentions that when younger people approach him at the gym for tips, he always stresses the importance of not mixing stressors, but finds it hard for them to grasp because they think sleep alone handles recovery.

the last thing that you want to do, and this is especially for middle-aged people, is go to the gym and then in between your sets, stress yourself out by checking your email or something. ... You're mixing two two stressors. ... your body doesn't know. The same neurotransmitters, man.

Also said
“One that's, you know, more cerebral and mental, one that's physical, but your body doesn't know.”— Simplifies the mechanism.

fitness-hormetic-curve

The dose of stress needed to stimulate muscle growth shifts depending on training status — less for beginners, more for advanced — and exceeding it leads to rhabdomyolysis or prolonged soreness.

Why this matters: Applies the hormesis concept specifically to performance and bodybuilding, not just longevity.

The host coins the term 'fitness hormetic curve' to describe the U-shaped relationship between stress dose and muscle-building benefit. Someone new to exercise may get substantial gains from very little stimulus, while a highly trained individual requires more, but there is a tipping point where the stress becomes destructive. Dr. Sherr warns that working out so hard you're sore for 7 days or worse, developing rhabdomyolysis, is a clear sign of exceeding hormetic capacity. He also notes that modern social media and 'grind culture' push people toward overtraining, leading to injuries and dropout, especially in high-intensity programs like CrossFit.

like I've kind of coined the term like a like a almost like the hormetic curve, but more of like the fitness hormetic curve. like what is the dose that you need to build muscle or you know because everyone like hormesis they're typically thinking longevity I'm like well okay yeah but some of us are performance-minded for sure and like that curve probably looks different and changes right depending on where you are in your fitness cycle

Also said
“if you work out for example and you feel sore for like seven days afterwards that was probably too much”— Practical gauge for exceeding hormetic stress.

Recommendations

Products, supplements, and tools mentioned in the episode

2 items

L-Theanine

Supplement

Amino acid supplement that promotes relaxation without sedation, used by the host pre-workout to smooth out caffeine's effects and accelerate post-exercise parasympathetic shift.

Thomas DeLauer shares that he has 'fallen back in love with theanine' after a period of not using it. He takes it pre-workout alongside caffeine to reduce jitters and finds that he comes down faster afterward. Dr. Sherr includes theanine in his list of effective GABAergic compounds.

vs alternatives

Compared to other GABAergics, theanine offers a non-sedating calm and pairs well with stimulants, making it suitable for pre- or intra-workout use.

Personal experience

Thomas DeLauer: 'I'll even take theanine like pre-workout uh because like I'll have caffeine and then the theanine kind of chills me out, but I found that I come down a little faster. I've recently fallen back in love with theanine.'

I'll even take theanine like pre-workout uh because like I'll have caffeine and then the theanine kind of chills me out, but I found that I come down a little faster.

Find L-Theanine

Hyperbaric Oxygen Chamber

Product

Post-workout recovery tool used by many professional athletes. Dr. Sherr recommends going in 2–3 hours after exercise to let the hormetic stress happen first, then use the chamber to aid recovery.

The host mentions that Dr. Sherr introduced him to post-workout hyperbaric oxygen therapy as a recovery aid. Dr. Sherr works with many professional athletes who use home chambers, and notes that Bill Romanowski famously spent over a million dollars a year on recovery modalities including hyperbarics. The recommendation is to not use it immediately post-workout, but to allow the initial stress response to occur, then use hyperbaric a few hours later.

vs alternatives

Not directly compared, but positioned as a premium tool for those with resources; not as accessible as behavioral methods.

Personal experience

Host: 'one thing that you turned me on to too is you know post-workout hyperbaric like that's very very good for recovery as well'.

the key with that is is to let the horatic stress happen by the exercise and then two to three hours later go into the chamber

Also said
“I don't want to go down that that rabbit hole too much but I will say like That is that isolate and well the professional athletes a lot of them are a lot of guys do I work with a lot of them that have them”— Indicates real-world adoption by elite athletes.
Find Hyperbaric
Disclosed sponsorships2speaker disclosed

Trocom

Supplement Sponsored · disclosed

A relaxation supplement containing GABAergic ingredients, claimed to induce parasympathetic activation within 15–30 minutes. Mentioned as a convenient way to calm the nervous system when behavioral methods are insufficient.

DisclosureDr. Sherr's company Transcriptions makes Trocom; he is the founder.

Dr. Sherr positions Trocom as a well-formulated option among many GABAergic compounds (kava, honokiol, etc.). The host notes he has used it intra-workout during running or pool workouts to maintain calm. Both emphasize it's not necessary for everyone, but can be a useful tool for those who struggle to downregulate naturally.

vs alternatives

Compared to other GABAergics like kava, honokiol, agmatine, magnolia bark, passion flower, and theanine, Trocom is positioned as a proprietary blend with a specific onset claim, but Dr. Sherr acknowledges many alternatives exist.

Personal experience

Thomas DeLauer has used Trocom intra-workout for running and pull workouts, finding it helps him stay calm and focused.

We have something called trocom as you know that helps with relaxation helps within about 15 to 30 minutes that can really work.

Also said
“there's if you're just looking at enhancing the GABA system you can look a lot of different compounds out there. I talked about cava, there's hanakyle, there's something called agurin which we've discussed in other episodes and podcasts.”— Acknowledges alternatives, reducing conflict of interest perception.
Find Trocom

Thrive Market

Service Sponsored · disclosed

Online grocery service offering high-protein foods with transparent ingredients, free from hidden fillers. Host highlights it avoids the 'games' of misleading high-protein labeling in regular stores.

DisclosureSponsor of the episode; host provides a discount link.

Thomas DeLauer explains that even as a knowledgeable shopper, he spends 25% more time cross-referencing ingredients at the store. Thrive Market simplifies this by vetting products, offering high-protein snacks with clear labels, and shipping quickly. The offer includes 30% off first order and a free $60 gift.

vs alternatives

Compared to regular grocery stores, Thrive Market removes the guesswork and transparently lists ingredients without misleading protein claims.

Personal experience

Host: 'Even myself, I know what to look for at a grocery store, but it takes me probably 25% longer to go grocery shopping than the average person because I do cross reference everything that's in the ingredients.'

The thing I like about Thrive is you see what you get and you get what you see. It's transparent.

Also said
“Thrive Market takes that guesswork out of the equation for me and it makes it accessible to me, but it makes it accessible to people all over the country.”— Broadens appeal beyond one person.
Find Thrive

Notable quotes

Lines worth pulling out — contrarian, specific, or perfectly phrased

5 items
if you want to build, you have to relax.
Pithy summary of the entire thesis, counterintuitive to gym culture.
The training itself is catabolic. The training itself is not when you're building muscle.
Directly challenges the common belief that gains are made during the workout.
you're mixing two two stressors. One that's, you know, more cerebral and mental, one that's physical, but your body doesn't know. The same neurotransmitters, man.
Memorable layman’s explanation of why checking email between sets ruins gains.
just take like five or 10 minutes. That's all you need to do.
Actionable minimal dose for recovery, lowering barrier to entry.
the the the surface that hasn't been scratched yet barely is what's going on up here. And that's the biggest lever that we can pull because it's going to allow us to pull bigger levers in the gym, pull bigger levers in our recovery
Frames neuroscience and mindset as the underexplored frontier in fitness.

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Topics covered

neurochemistrymuscle-buildingparasympathetic-recoverysympathetic-nervous-systemcortisol-catabolismhormetic-stress-fitnessnasal-breathingGABAergics-supplementspost-workout-mealmental-stress-traininghyperbaric-oxygenprofessional-athlete-recoverythrive-markettrocoml-theanine
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Educational summary of the cited expert source — not medical advice. Open the source recording linked above and consult a qualified physician before acting on any protocol.