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Episode
Divorce Lawyer: “Give her a prenup on the 3rd date” - James Sexton
~166 min
Episode Brief·YouTube

Divorce Lawyer: “Give her a prenup on the 3rd date” - James Sexton

Chris Williamson
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TL;DR

The four things you'd lose by not watching

4 items

TL;DR

The four things you'd lose by not watching

4 items
1

Every marriage inherently has a prenup; it's either one dictated by the government or one mutually agreed upon by the couple. The speaker advocates for the latter, suggesting it fosters safety and open communication.

2

The speaker recommends discussing prenups as early as the third date, framing it as part of essential life questions to ensure both partners feel safe and understood.

3

To navigate relationship conflicts effectively, the speaker advises against 'weaponizing intimacy' and suggests establishing a 'baseline' for communication and behavior, using methods like thoughtful emails for difficult conversations.

4

For getting over breakups, the speaker emphasizes processing grief, engaging in physical and spiritual practices, and reconnecting with aspects of oneself that may have been lost during the relationship.

Protocols

Concrete recipes — what, when, how much, and why

8 items

Discuss Prenups Early

WhatInitiate conversations about prenups as early as the third date to gauge a partner's perspective and integrate it into broader life discussions.
WhenAs early as the third date, or as soon as serious life questions (kids, location, family) are being discussed.
For whomAnyone considering marriage or a long-term committed relationship.
WhyEarly discussion normalizes the topic, allows for open and vulnerable communication, and helps establish a foundation of safety and understanding in the relationship. It's better to discuss these things when both parties are 'crazy about each other' and have an abundance of goodwill.

The speaker strongly advocates for bringing up the topic of prenups very early in a serious relationship, ideally by the third date. This isn't about being unromantic, but about integrating it into the essential conversations couples should have, such as desires for children, geographical preferences, and family involvement. By subtly introducing the topic (e.g., discussing celebrity prenups), one can gauge a partner's initial reaction. The rationale is that a prenup is fundamentally about creating a sense of safety for both individuals within the relationship, especially when there are significant financial disparities. It allows both partners to articulate their needs and fears regarding potential separation, ensuring that neither feels taken advantage of or left vulnerable. This proactive approach, while potentially uncomfortable, is seen as a crucial step in building a truly secure and loving partnership.

Personally, I think third date. Like, I think I'm not kidding. I think that there's plenty of ways to safely enter that discussion.

Avoid Weaponizing Intimacy in Arguments

WhatRefrain from using sensitive information or vulnerabilities shared by a partner against them during disagreements.
WhyWeaponizing intimacy destroys trust and creates irreparable damage to the relationship, making genuine connection impossible.

The speaker, drawing from his experience as a divorce lawyer, identifies 'weaponizing intimacy' as one of the most destructive behaviors in romantic relationships. Intimacy is defined as the ability to be completely oneself with another person, sharing vulnerabilities and 'soft targets.' When these shared confidences are used as ammunition during a fight, it's a 'villainous thing to do' because it cannot be taken back and deeply violates the trust that forms the bedrock of the relationship. He cites examples from 'Marriage Story' where characters use deeply personal knowledge to inflict maximum pain. Such actions make it impossible for the other person to feel safe enough to be vulnerable again, thereby eroding the very essence of intimacy and making recovery extremely difficult, if not impossible.

I think the most important thing in romantic relationships and marriages is um do not ever weaponize intimacy.

Establish Argument Baselines and Safe Words

WhatProactively discuss and agree upon how to handle arguments and disagreements before they happen, including potential 'safe words' or methods for taking breaks.
WhyLearning to fight effectively when not in a fight prevents escalation, allows for constructive conflict resolution, and protects the relationship from destructive patterns.

The speaker emphasizes that the worst time to learn how to fight is during a fight. Instead, couples should proactively discuss their individual preferences for conflict resolution. This includes asking questions like: 'Do you need a minute to cool down?' 'Should I never say 'calm down'?' 'Should we use a code word to take a break?' The goal is to establish a 'baseline' for how disagreements will be handled, ensuring that both partners feel heard and respected even amidst tension. While acknowledging the challenge of implementing this in the heat of the moment, having a pre-agreed framework can prevent arguments from spiraling into destructive patterns. This approach fosters a sense of safety, knowing that even when conflict arises, there's a shared understanding of how to navigate it constructively.

I think when you're in a relationship or starting a relationship or getting serious enough in a relationship that now you're saying your boyfriend, girlfriend, or whoever it might be, I don't think there's anything wrong with saying, 'Look, we're we're definitely going to get in an argument someday.'

Use 'Hit Send Now' for Difficult Conversations

WhatFor sensitive or potentially confrontational topics, write an email (with a specific subject line like 'Hit Send Now') to allow for thoughtful composition and non-immediate, non-defensive reception.
WhyThis method allows the sender to articulate their thoughts carefully and the receiver to process the information without immediate pressure to respond defensively, preventing escalation.

As an alternative to immediate verbal confrontation, especially for sensitive issues, the speaker proposes the 'Hit Send Now' email method. The idea is that by writing an email, the sender can be thoughtful, careful, and precise in their communication, avoiding impulsive or emotionally charged statements. The recipient, upon seeing a pre-agreed subject line, understands that this is a message requiring digestion, not an immediate verbal response. This removes the pressure of an on-the-spot reaction, which often leads to defensiveness. It allows both parties to engage with the difficult topic in a more measured and constructive way, preventing the 'truth' from getting lost in a cycle of blame and counter-blame, as often happens in verbal arguments. The principle is to slow down the interaction to allow for greater understanding and less reactivity.

Hit send. Now, what I talk about is send an email. I know that sounds impersonal, but the thing about sending an email is I can be thoughtful in the way that I put it together and and there will be an understanding between us that if the subject heading is hitting send now that this is one of those emails that I just want to say this, you don't have to respond immediately.

Prime the Pump for Difficult Discussions

WhatBefore addressing a sensitive issue, remind your partner of positive shared experiences related to the topic to create a receptive emotional state.
WhyThis approach softens the conversation, reduces defensiveness, and frames the issue within the context of shared affection and positive history.

When approaching a sensitive topic, such as a decline in sexual intimacy, the speaker suggests 'priming the pump' by recalling positive, deeply connected shared memories. Instead of directly asking, 'Why aren't we having sex as much?' which can sound accusatory, one might say, 'Remember that time we stayed in bed for a day and a half? I still love that feeling of being so physically close to you.' This technique brings the partner back to a place of warmth and connection, reminding them of the positive aspects of the relationship. By praising them and recalling shared joy, the conversation shifts from a complaint to a desire for reconnection, making the partner more receptive and less defensive. This method leverages positive emotional recall to facilitate a more constructive dialogue about areas needing improvement.

Think of the difference if your partner says, 'Why aren't we having sex as much as we used to?' Or, 'Man, it sucks we're not having sex as much as we used to.' And your partner saying, 'God, you know what I was thinking about yesterday? I drove past that restaurant. Remember we went out to that restaurant when we were first dating and then we went back to my apartment and we literally stayed in bed for a day and a half. That was so much. What a God. I think about that sometimes even now.'

Process Grief After Breakups

WhatAllow yourself to fully experience and move through the stages of grief (bargaining, sadness, anger, acceptance) after a relationship ends.
WhySkipping or suppressing grief prolongs the healing process and can lead to unhealthy coping mechanisms or premature new relationships.

The speaker likens the end of a marriage or serious relationship to a death, emphasizing that it requires a full grieving process similar to Elizabeth Kubler-Ross's stages of death and dying. He argues that one cannot simply 'skip' these stages (bargaining, sadness, anger, acceptance) and expect to heal properly. Trying to jump into a new serious relationship immediately after a breakup is seen as a detrimental way to cope, as it prevents the necessary emotional processing. True recovery, he suggests, often only begins once the divorce or separation is legally finalized, symbolizing the 'burial of the dead body.' This period of processing is crucial for understanding what happened, learning from the experience, and preparing oneself for future healthy connections.

Because all that's happened is a marriage has ended. A relationship has died. So you have to treat it like a death. We have to have the bargaining, the sadness, we have to have the anger. We have to have each of those stages before we can reach acceptance.

Engage in Physical/Spiritual Practice Post-Breakup

WhatReturn to or begin a physical practice (like martial arts, running) or a spiritual practice (meditation, religion) after a breakup.
For whomAnyone going through a breakup or divorce.
WhyThese practices provide healthy outlets for stress, foster a sense of community, reconnect individuals with themselves, and build resilience.

The speaker strongly advocates for engaging in a physical or spiritual practice as a healthy coping mechanism after a breakup. He shares his personal experience of returning to martial arts (Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu) after his divorce, finding immense value in the physical challenge, the sense of community, and the trust involved in the practice. He notes that physical exertion and overcoming adversity can be cleansing and empowering. Similarly, spiritual practices like meditation or returning to religious roots can help individuals reconnect with themselves and find meaning. These activities provide a structured way to channel difficult emotions, build self-esteem, and combat the profound loneliness that often accompanies the end of a relationship. The goal is to find healthy outlets and rebuild a sense of self and connection, rather than seeking immediate solace in another relationship.

Personal experience

The speaker states, "When I got divorced, I went back to martial arts. When I took up Brazilian jiu-jitsu because I actually took up, well, you know, Craig Jones actually said an interview recently like he he was sort of slagging on somebody. It might have been Gordon and he said like uh guys like come on like this is this is like you know cardio for divorced dad like and I I thought you know what thank you for saying that out loud it's exactly what it was."

I believe that the people that that a have some body practice is really important. I know that's going to sound really broish, but I really do think that there is tremendous value in body practice.

Create Routines and Symbols Post-Breakup

WhatEstablish new routines and symbolic actions, especially related to children or personal space, to navigate the emotional void after a breakup.
For whomParents navigating divorce with children, or individuals adjusting to living alone.
WhyRoutines provide structure and a sense of control, while symbolic actions can help process loss and prepare for future positive experiences.

After his divorce, the speaker found immense strength in creating routines, particularly around his children's visits. When his kids would leave, he would immediately do their laundry, wash their sheets, and meticulously make their beds, putting their clothes away. This symbolic act of preparing their space for their return provided a sense of control and continuity during a period of profound disruption and loneliness. It allowed him to acknowledge their absence while also affirming their eventual return. This routine helped him transition from the joyous chaos of having his children to the quiet solitude, giving him permission to then focus on his own needs and identity. The principle is that in times of emotional upheaval, establishing small, meaningful routines can provide stability and a sense of purpose, helping to navigate grief and rebuild life.

Personal experience

The speaker recounts, "I just started to create like routines. Like we live in a world of symbols. And what I would do is they would leave and I would make a point of doing all of the laundry of their clothes and washing their sheets. And then I would make their rooms. Like I would put their beds back just right and I'd put their clothes in the drawers and it was ready. it was ready for when they were back."

I just started to create like routines. Like we live in a world of symbols. And what I would do is they would leave and I would make a point of doing all of the laundry of their clothes and washing their sheets. And then I would make their rooms. Like I would put their beds back just right and I'd put their clothes in the drawers and it was ready.

What's new

Personal practice updates, fresh positions, predictions

4 items

Prenups as Universal Contracts

Every married couple effectively has a prenup, whether it's a default one imposed by government laws or a custom one created by the couple themselves.

Why this matters: This reframes prenups from an optional, often stigmatized agreement to an inherent aspect of marriage, shifting the perception of their necessity.

Background

Traditionally, prenups are seen as a pre-marital agreement for wealthy individuals, often viewed with suspicion or as a sign of distrust. The speaker challenges this by asserting their universality.

The speaker argues that the government, through its domestic relations and family court laws, essentially provides a default prenup for every married couple. These laws dictate how assets are divided, spousal support, child support, and inheritance rights in the event of a divorce. The critical difference is that this 'government prenup' can change at any time without the couple's consent, and they cannot opt out of it once it's changed. In contrast, a custom prenup is a contract written by the two individuals, allowing them to define the terms of their separation if the marriage ends in anything other than death. This perspective aims to normalize prenups by presenting them as a choice between a default, externally controlled contract and a personalized, mutually agreed-upon one.

I think the biggest thing people don't understand is that everyone has a prenup. Everyone, every person who's married has a prenup. It's either one that was written by the government and can be changed by the government at any time without your notice and that once the government changes it, you can't opt out of this anymore.

Prenups and Divorce Likelihood

The speaker theorizes that couples who engage in the prenup process are less likely to divorce, attributing this to the open and vulnerable communication required.

Why this matters: This is a contrarian stance to the common belief that prenups indicate a lack of trust or predict divorce, instead suggesting they strengthen relationships.

While acknowledging the unfalsifiable nature of his theory due to prenups not being publicly filed, the speaker, with 25 years of experience as a divorce lawyer and having drafted hundreds to thousands of prenups, observes a significantly lower divorce rate among his prenup clients. He notes that he has only handled three divorces for clients for whom he also drafted a prenup. He posits that the process of negotiating a prenup forces couples to have open, vulnerable, and brave conversations about difficult topics like finances and potential separation. This ability to communicate effectively about sensitive issues, even if uncomfortable in the short term, builds a stronger foundation for the relationship, fostering safety and understanding that ultimately reduces the likelihood of divorce.

Personal experience

The speaker states, "very few of the hundreds if not thousands of prenups I've done, I think I've only done three divorces for someone who I did a prenup for."

I think that people who get prenups usually don't get divorced. I think and and I actually think that makes sense to me because the level of like open, vulnerable, brave conversation you have to have to to negotiate and discuss the terms of a prenup.

The 'Gentlemanosphere' Concept

A new term, 'gentlemanosphere,' is proposed to describe a movement focused on non-toxic masculinity, emphasizing emotional intelligence, striving, and relational patterns, distinct from traditional patriarchal approaches.

Why this matters: This introduces a nuanced perspective on modern masculinity, aiming to redefine it beyond suppression of emotions or rigid patriarchal roles.

The 'gentlemanosphere' is presented as a counterpoint to existing discussions around masculinity, aiming to foster a space where men can explore and embody positive traits. It emphasizes the importance of understanding and integrating emotions, rather than suppressing them, and prioritizing healthy relational patterns. This approach encourages men to strive for self-improvement and to engage in open, transparent communication within relationships. The speaker and host discuss how this differs from a 'classically patriarchal' approach, which might dictate roles without negotiation. The core idea is to cultivate a masculinity that is both strong and emotionally intelligent, focused on mutual growth and understanding in relationships.

I want it to be that we're gentlemen and not gentlemen. Yes. Correct. Because I tend to be of the like, you know, civilize the mind and make savage the body. gentle manosphere.

Relationship Advice Stigma

There's a societal stigma around seeking relationship advice, where taking it implies a problem, similar to how not drinking alcohol can lead to assumptions of alcoholism.

Why this matters: This highlights a counterproductive societal norm that discourages proactive relationship health and learning.

The speaker draws a parallel between the perception of not drinking alcohol (often leading to assumptions of alcoholism) and seeking relationship advice (often implying a troubled relationship). He argues that this stigma prevents people from proactively learning and improving their relationship skills, despite relationships being one of the most significant aspects of life, impacting everything from personal well-being to financial success. He emphasizes that being 'good at love' is a teachable skill, and a systematic approach to it can yield immense value, regardless of whether one's primary focus is money, children, or physical health. The current societal view, however, often frames relationship education as a reactive measure for failing relationships rather than a proactive investment in a crucial life skill.

Personal experience

The speaker mentions, "I don't drink. And when I say, and it's not I've never had a problem drinking. It's never been an issue. But anytime I tell someone, 'Oh, I don't drink alcohol,' they assume I'm an alcoholic."

Relationship advice, one of very few that if you take it, people assume that it's because of an issue.

Recommendations

Products, supplements, and tools mentioned in the episode

5 items

How to Stay in Love

Book

A book by the featured expert, James Sexton, offering a systematic approach to maintaining love in relationships.

You can get How to Stay in Love anywhere where fine books are sold. You can listen to it on Audible or download that. You can listen to me talk for eight and a half hours if that's your thing.

Find How

Notes on Being a Man

Book

A book by Scott Galloway, mentioned in the context of discussions around modern masculinity and the 'gentlemanosphere'.

Scott, like I loved I loved Notes on Being a Man. Like I think it's a great book, but I I I I said that if you removed the throat clearing and land acknowledgements from every chapter, it would have been like half the length.

Find Notes

Your Brain on Love

Book

A book by Stan Hadkin, mentioned for its insights on attachment theory and dealing with arguments in relationships.

So, there's a book called Your Brain on Love by Stan Hadkin. It's in my second reading list.

Find Your

If Men Could Menstruate

Book

An essay by Gloria Steinem, recommended for understanding how characteristics of the powerful are often attributed as superior.

That's Gloria Steinum from her essay If men could menstruate, which is a phenomenal essay. If you've never read it, it's worth reading. It's a really really good essay even particularly for men to read because it really talks about how when you you know when you attribute something and it talks about how like if men could menstruate it would be well the men can be the only ones in the military because we're used to the sight of blood and that men can only be and it's all of how the characteristics of the power and again it was written in the 1960s when there were a lot of systemic you know things against women and so I didn't realize Danielle is close friends with Gloria Steinum and I ended up getting an invitation to Gloria Steinum comes home.

Find If

Texting Friends When Thinking of Them

Practice

A simple 'life hack' for maintaining friendships and fostering connection.

This practice involves sending a quick text message to a friend whenever they spontaneously come to mind, rather than letting the thought pass. The speaker highlights how often thoughts of friends pop up throughout the day, and by acting on these impulses, one can create meaningful, low-effort connections. This contrasts with the idea that all connection needs to be formalized or involve significant effort. It's a 'free' way to strengthen social bonds, which the speaker notes is often overlooked by mainstream media because there's no commercial incentive behind it.

Personal experience

The speaker shares his own habit of texting people when Apple Photos sends him memory reminders, often leading to brief but meaningful exchanges.

The best one is basically this, but for friendships, and it's text your friends when you think about them.

Find Texting
Disclosed sponsorships4speaker disclosed

Function Health

Service Sponsored · disclosed

For comprehensive health monitoring and personalized insights, particularly for tracking biomarkers like testosterone.

DisclosureChris Williamson has partnered with Function Health.

Function Health offers lab tests that monitor over 100 biomarkers twice a year. A team of expert physicians analyzes the data and provides actionable advice to improve health and lifespan. This service is highlighted as a smarter and more comprehensive way to understand what's happening inside one's body, with the benefit of seeing biomarker levels charted over time and receiving insights for improvement. The typical cost for such blood work and analysis would be thousands, but Function Health offers it for $499, with a current discount bringing it to $399.

Twice a year, they run lab tests that monitor over a 100 biomarkers. They've got a team of expert physicians that analyze the data and give you actionable advice to improve your health and lifespan.

Find Function

Momentous Omega-3s

Supplement Sponsored · disclosed

For supporting brain function, reducing inflammation, and improving heart health.

DisclosureChris Williamson has partnered with Momentous.

Momentous Omega-3s are presented as a high-quality supplement, distinguishing themselves from other brands that often use cheap fish oil and fillers. They are NSF certified for sport and rigorously tested for heavy metals and purity, ensuring that 'what you read on the label is what's in the product and absolutely nothing else.' The benefits of omega-3s, such as improved brain function, reduced inflammation, and better heart health, are supported by numerous studies. Momentous offers a 30-day money-back guarantee and ships internationally.

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Element (LMNT) Electrolytes

Supplement Sponsored · disclosed

For proper hydration, reducing muscle cramps and fatigue, optimizing brain health, and curbing cravings.

DisclosureChris Williamson is dependent on Element and has partnered with them.

Element is described as the best-tasting hydration drink on the market, crucial for proper hydration which involves more than just water intake; it requires sufficient electrolytes. Each stick pack contains a science-backed ratio of sodium, potassium, and magnesium, with no sugar, artificial ingredients, or fillers. The speaker personally uses it every morning and notes a tangible difference in how he feels. Element offers a unique 'no questions asked' refund policy with unlimited duration, allowing customers to try the product without risk, even if they use the entire box.

Each grab-and-go stick pack is a sciencebacked electrolyte ratio of sodium, potassium, and magnesium. It's got no sugar, coloring, artificial ingredients, or any other junk. This plays a critical role in reducing muscle cramps and fatigue while optimizing brain health, regulating your appetite, and curbing cravings.

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Shopify

Service Sponsored · disclosed

For e-commerce businesses, particularly for converting browsers into buyers and simplifying backend operations.

DisclosureChris Williamson has partnered with Shopify and uses it for his own business (Newtonic).

Shopify powers 10% of all e-commerce companies in the US, including major brands like Gym Shark and Skiims. It's highlighted for its effectiveness in converting customers, with its checkout being 36% better on average than other platforms and Shop Pay boosting conversions by up to 50%. Shopify handles the technical aspects of online selling, such as coding, website building, and inventory management, allowing business owners to focus on product design and sales. It offers award-winning support and a $1 per month trial period.

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Notable quotes

Lines worth pulling out — contrarian, specific, or perfectly phrased

6 items
Most divorces are done with a scalpel. I'm a chainsaw.
This vivid metaphor highlights the speaker's aggressive, litigation-focused approach as a divorce lawyer, contrasting it with more common, amicable resolutions.
To me, you can't feel loved if you don't feel safe. I mean, genuinely loved if you don't feel safe.
This quote encapsulates a core philosophy of the speaker regarding relationships, emphasizing safety as a prerequisite for true love and vulnerability.
The worst time to learn how to fight is in a fight.
This emphasizes the importance of proactive communication and establishing ground rules for conflict resolution before emotions run high.
I want to protect you from people that hurt you, even if that someone's me.
This profound statement reflects a deep understanding of human fallibility in relationships and the desire to safeguard a partner from potential pain, even from oneself.
Alcohol is the only drug where if you don't do it, people assume you have a problem.
This insightful observation highlights a societal paradox regarding alcohol consumption and draws a parallel to the stigma of seeking relationship advice.
You can't win a fight with your spouse or your girlfriend. Everybody loses. You You can't If you won, you lost. You made the person feel small. And vice versa, by the way, women and men. And if you lost, you lost.
This quote succinctly captures the futility of 'winning' arguments in intimate relationships, emphasizing that the goal should be understanding and resolution, not victory.

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Topics covered

valentine's day proposalsdivorce statisticsprofessional athletes and divorceretirement and divorcedissatisfaction in relationshipsdifficult professions to negotiate withhedge fund guysprenups explainedgovernment prenupslegally significant actsstate divorce lawsconsensual sodomy lawsprenups and divorce likelihoodwhen to discuss prenupssafety in relationshipsdiminished lifetime earning capacitynormalizing prenupseconomy of marriagechanging people in marriagemarriage as anti-monster powder
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