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Episode
Protect & Improve Your Hearing & Brain Health | Dr. Konstantina Stankovic
~162 min
Episode Brief·YouTube

Protect & Improve Your Hearing & Brain Health | Dr. Konstantina Stankovic

Andrew Huberman
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TL;DR

The four things you'd lose by not watching

4 items

TL;DR

The four things you'd lose by not watching

4 items
1

Hearing loss affects 1.5 billion people globally and is projected to affect another billion by 2050. It's often underappreciated and stigmatized, unlike vision problems.

2

Even subtle hearing deficits can lead to focus issues, mild cognitive impairment, and more serious hearing loss is directly linked to dementia. This is occurring earlier in life due to loud environments and headphone use.

3

To protect hearing, wear earplugs in loud environments (e.g., concerts) and consider magnesium supplementation (specifically magnesium threonate) before noise exposure, as it has shown protective effects against noise-induced hearing loss.

4

Tinnitus, or ringing in the ears, is a phantom sound produced by the brain, often in response to reduced auditory input. While no supplement has definitively been proven to help all types of tinnitus, cognitive behavioral therapy and hearing aids (for those who need them) are endorsed interventions.

Protocols

Concrete recipes — what, when, how much, and why

5 items

Protecting Hearing in Loud Environments

WhatWear earplugs when exposed to loud noises, such as concerts, and be mindful of sound intensity levels.
WhenBefore entering or during exposure to loud environments (e.g., concerts, construction sites).
DoseUse earplugs that provide adequate attenuation (e.g., 30 dB for 120 dB concerts). For every 3 dB increase in sound intensity, halve the safe exposure time (e.g., 80 dB for 8 hours, 83 dB for 4 hours, 92 dB for 30 minutes).
For whomAnyone attending loud events or working in noisy environments.
WhyLoud noise can cause permanent damage to the delicate structures of the inner ear, leading to hearing loss and tinnitus. Earplugs reduce the sound pressure reaching the eardrum, mitigating this damage.
CaveatsEnsure earplugs are fitted correctly to provide the stated attenuation. Musicians' earplugs (around 14 dB attenuation) may not be sufficient for extremely loud events. Children are more vulnerable to noise damage than adults.

Dr. Stankovic emphasizes that while enjoying loud music or being in noisy environments can be appealing, it poses a significant risk to hearing. She explains that sound intensity is measured on a logarithmic decibel (dB) scale, meaning small increases in dB represent large increases in sound energy. For instance, 80 dB is safe for 8 hours, but 92 dB (a common concert level) is only safe for 30 minutes. To protect against this, she strongly recommends wearing earplugs. She advises checking the attenuation rating of earplugs, noting that some provide only 10-15 dB reduction, while others offer up to 30 dB, which would be necessary for very loud concerts. Proper fit is crucial for effectiveness. She also highlights that children's ears are more vulnerable to noise damage, making it important for parents to be extra cautious about sound levels for their kids.

Mechanism

The inner ear's hair cells are extremely delicate and can be damaged by excessive mechanical vibration from loud sounds. Earplugs reduce the intensity of these vibrations, protecting the hair cells and their synaptic connections to auditory neurons.

Definitely wear earplugs. You can even measure sound intensities if you want to be very quantitative about it, because now you have a rough formula.

Also said
“So, for every three decibel increase in sound intensity, you have to half the time exposure that's safe.”— Provides a practical rule for understanding safe noise exposure limits.
“Musicians' earplugs usually provide about 14 decibel of attenuation, so clearly that wouldn't be good enough for this event.”— Illustrates the varying effectiveness of different earplugs.
“What we have also learned, from both human and animal studies, is that children are definitely more vulnerable.”— Highlights a specific population that needs extra protection.

Magnesium Supplementation for Hearing Protection

WhatConsider taking magnesium, particularly magnesium threonate, before exposure to loud noise.
WhenBefore going to a loud concert or engaging in activities with high noise levels.
DoseThe precise dose and formulation are not definitively known, but magnesium threonate is suggested due to its ability to cross the blood-brain barrier.
For whomIndividuals anticipating exposure to loud noise, or those with tinnitus in the context of migraine.
WhyStudies have shown that magnesium can protect against noise-induced hearing loss, potentially by influencing the chemical environment of the cochlea and/or brain.
CaveatsThe precise dose and optimal formulation for hearing protection are still under study. Magnesium supplements are not strictly regulated, so choosing a trusted brand is important. A healthy diet rich in magnesium is always preferred over supplementation.

Dr. Stankovic discusses the potential protective effects of magnesium against noise-induced hearing loss. She cites studies, particularly from countries with mandatory military service, where individuals given magnesium before noise exposure (like artillery fire) experienced less hearing loss. Research in animal models indicates that magnesium levels in the cochlea are significantly altered after noise trauma, more so than other ions. Large-scale human studies also suggest that individuals with higher serum magnesium levels or intake tend to have better hearing. While the precise dose and formulation are still being investigated, magnesium threonate is considered a promising option due to its ability to cross the blood-brain barrier, potentially offering protection at both the cochlear and central nervous system levels. She cautions that while magnesium is beneficial for overall health, supplementation should ideally complement a healthy diet, and the supplement industry lacks strict regulation.

Mechanism

Animal models show that magnesium levels in the cochlea change significantly after noise trauma. Human population studies suggest a link between higher magnesium levels and better hearing. Magnesium threonate is thought to be most effective for brain and potentially hearing protection due to its ability to cross the blood-brain barrier.

Personal experience

Andrew Huberman mentions taking magnesium threonate for over a decade for cognitive enhancement and sleep improvement, noting it makes him drowsy and improves sleep architecture.

Another thing that you can do is take magnesium before going to a loud concert, and this is because studies have shown that magnesium can protect against noise-induced hearing loss.

Also said
“And the studies were done in countries where they have mandatory military service. And they literally grouped people into those who received magnesium before those exercises, and those who didn't, and everybody was exposed to the same artillery and explosions as a part of preparation. Those who took magnesium beforehand had less hearing loss.”— Provides specific evidence from human studies.
“What we now think is that magnesium threonate is most efficient in crossing the blood-brain barrier, so we think it's probably the best for hearing protection, but that study is yet to be conducted.”— Suggests a specific form of magnesium and its rationale.
“I've been taking magnesium threonate for, gosh, well over a decade because I learned that it was the form that most readily crosses the blood-brain barrier. I was interested in the cognitive-enhancing effects. I take it about 30 to 60 minutes before sleep, and it does seem to make me a little bit more drowsy and does seem to improve the architecture of my sleep, slow wave- and REM sleep measured, et cetera.”— Andrew Huberman's personal experience with magnesium threonate.

Managing Tinnitus

WhatSeek a thorough clinical evaluation for tinnitus, and employ cognitive behavioral therapy and hearing aids if recommended. Actively distract yourself from the ringing.
WhenUpon experiencing persistent tinnitus.
For whomIndividuals suffering from tinnitus.
WhyTinnitus is a complex condition with various underlying causes. A proper diagnosis is crucial, and distraction techniques, along with endorsed therapies, can help manage the condition and prevent exacerbation.
CaveatsNo supplement has been definitively proven to help all types of tinnitus. Self-treatment without evaluation is not recommended.

Dr. Stankovic stresses that tinnitus is an 'umbrella term' encompassing many different conditions, making a precise diagnosis essential. She states that systematic reviews and meta-analyses have not shown definitive benefits for most supplements in treating tinnitus, though she acknowledges this might be due to lumping diverse subtypes together. The American Academy of Otolaryngology-Head and Neck Surgery endorses two main interventions: amplification with a hearing aid (for those with hearing loss) and cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT). She also supports the advice to actively distract oneself from tinnitus, as focusing on it can reinforce the neural circuits responsible for its perception. A thorough evaluation, including ear examination, hearing tests, and potentially imaging, is necessary to rule out rare but serious underlying causes like tumors. For severe cases, cochlear implants have shown significant success in reducing or eliminating tinnitus, suggesting that restoring peripheral auditory function can help the brain recalibrate.

Mechanism

Tinnitus is a phantom sound generated by the brain, often in response to reduced auditory input. The brain's circuits can become hyperactive or lose inhibition, leading to the perception of ringing. Distraction and cognitive behavioral therapy aim to retrain the brain's response to the sound, while hearing aids can provide corrected input to the periphery, allowing the brain to recalibrate.

And what studies have shown, and systematic reviews, and meta-analyses, that none of this supplementation makes a difference for tinnitus.

Also said
“So, to the point that the American Academy of Otolaryngology-Head and Neck Surgery really endorses two main interventions. One is amplification with a hearing aid for those who need it, and two is cognitive behavioral therapy.”— Highlights the officially endorsed treatments for tinnitus.
“And it sounds like a brush-off, but he really encouraged people to try and not think about it, try to distract themselves, because that could help prevent some of the, you know, ramping up of what you and I call, the gain of those circuits.”— Reinforces the importance of distraction as a coping mechanism.
“And so, we know that there is hyperactivity. Also, most of the brain works on the principle of inhibition. Now, what has been shown in animal studies is that loud noise, which causes tinnitus, can lead to loss of that inhibition, so that can lead to hyperactivity.”— Explains the neural mechanism behind tinnitus and why distraction might help.

Communicating with Individuals with Hearing Loss

WhatWhen speaking to someone with hearing loss, face them, speak slowly, and eliminate background noise.
WhenDuring conversations with individuals who have hearing loss.
For whomAnyone interacting with individuals experiencing hearing loss.
WhyThese actions facilitate better comprehension by providing clearer auditory and visual cues, as individuals with hearing loss often struggle most with speech in noisy environments.
CaveatsSpeaking louder or yelling is often counterproductive and can be uncomfortable for the listener.

Dr. Stankovic provides practical advice for effective communication with individuals experiencing hearing loss. She explains that people with hearing loss typically struggle most with understanding speech in noisy environments, even if they can hear well in quiet settings. Therefore, it's crucial to face the person directly, allowing them to utilize visual cues like lip-reading. Speaking slowly, rather than loudly, is also more effective, as yelling can distort speech and be uncomfortable. Eliminating background noises, such as a running faucet or a television, significantly improves their ability to comprehend what is being said. This approach helps compensate for the auditory system's reduced ability to filter out irrelevant sounds.

Mechanism

Individuals with hearing loss often have difficulty distinguishing speech from background noise (the 'cocktail party effect'). Facing them allows for lip-reading and visual cues, while speaking slowly and reducing noise provides a cleaner auditory signal, making it easier for their auditory system (which may have reduced redundancy) to process the information.

Personal experience

Andrew Huberman shares that he has a family member with moderate hearing loss and has observed that background noise discombobulates them, despite their cognitive sharpness.

In fact, that's a big message for everyone who is listening, that it's more important to face someone and speak slowly if they have hearing loss than speaking loudly, I mean, than yelling.

Also said
“And so, if someone has hearing loss, and you are trying to talk to them with water running, or a TV on, or you're trying to talk to them from a different room, forget about it.”— Emphasizes the importance of minimizing background distractions.
“I have a family member who is suffering from some moderate hearing loss, and I do notice that if there's anything going on in the background while we're on a phone call, or even in person, they get discombobulated, and they're very cognitively sharp.”— Andrew Huberman's personal observation supporting the advice.

Using Earplugs for Sleep

WhatWear earplugs to create a quiet sleeping environment.
WhenDuring sleep, especially in noisy environments or for those with sleep disturbances.
For whomAnyone seeking to improve sleep quality, particularly those in noisy environments or experiencing sleep disturbances.
WhyA quiet environment is ideal for sleep, and earplugs can significantly reduce auditory input, improving sleep quality.
CaveatsInitial use might make one aware of internal bodily sounds (e.g., heartbeat), but this typically subsides.

Andrew Huberman shares his recent experience of using wax earplugs for sleep, noting a significant improvement in his sleep quality. He explains that even during sleep, particularly REM sleep, the brain continues to process auditory information, and external noises can disrupt sleep architecture. By using earplugs, he creates a quieter environment, which he believes contributes to deeper and more refreshing sleep. He mentions an initial period where he could hear his own heartbeat, which was distracting, but this sensation eventually subsided as his brain adapted. Dr. Stankovic corroborates this by stating that the ideal sleeping environment, as observed in hibernating bears, is quiet, dark, and cold, emphasizing the importance of auditory quietude.

Mechanism

The brain continues to process auditory information during sleep, even in REM sleep. Reducing external noise allows the brain to achieve deeper, more restorative sleep states without being disturbed. The brain can adapt to the altered auditory input, eventually filtering out internal sounds.

Personal experience

Andrew Huberman has been using wax earplugs for sleep for six months, noting a tremendous improvement in his sleep. He initially heard his heartbeat but it subsided.

One of the things that I've done, really in the last six months, to try and improve my sleep, and it's worked tremendously well, is to use earplugs when I sleep.

Also said
“And the motivation for this came from... There's this wild study published a couple of years ago in "Nature Neuroscience" that shows that people can actually answer simple math problems in their sleep, in REM sleep, because you're paralyzed in REM sleep, they have to answer a different way, but we're still hearing a lot in our sleep.”— Provides scientific context for why auditory input during sleep is relevant.
“So, what studies have shown is that the ideal sleeping environment is what bears do when they hibernate. It's three things. It has to be quiet, dark, and cold.”— Supports the idea that a quiet environment is optimal for sleep.

What's new

Personal practice updates, fresh positions, predictions

4 items

Hidden Hearing Loss

0:22:00

Even if audiometric tests show normal hearing, loud noise exposure can cause permanent damage to the synapses connecting sensory cells to neurons, leading to 'hidden hearing loss' where individuals struggle in noisy environments or experience tinnitus.

Why this matters: This concept challenges the traditional understanding that temporary ringing in the ears after loud events is always fully reversible, revealing a more insidious form of damage that standard tests miss.

Background

Previously, ringing in the ears after a loud event was considered a 'temporary threshold shift' that fully resolved. However, new research indicates that some of these temporary shifts can lead to permanent damage at the synaptic level.

Dr. Stankovic explains that while hearing might return to normal on audiometric testing after a loud event, the underlying damage to the synapses between sensory cells and neurons can be permanent. This damage can take a long time to degenerate, leading to a condition known as 'hidden hearing loss.' This type of hearing loss is particularly prevalent among young people who might pass standard hearing tests but report difficulty understanding speech in noisy backgrounds or experience persistent tinnitus. The anatomical correlates of this damage are now being observed in both animal and clinical data, highlighting that the ear's delicate structures are more vulnerable than previously thought.

But now we know that some forms of temporary threshold shift are in fact permanent. Although your hearing may come back, and in fact we can see it on audiometric testing, we now know that the wheel has been set in motion, where synapses that connect these sensory cells to neurons that contact them have been damaged or destroyed by loud sound.

Also said
“However, they report that they cannot hear clearly in a noisy background, or they have this tinnitus that they didn't have before.”— Describes the subjective experience of hidden hearing loss.
“So, what's now emerging from both animal and clinical data is that, indeed, there are anatomical correlates of this damage, and it typically involves synapses between sensory cells and neurons, or it may even involve hair cells and neurons themselves.”— Provides scientific basis for the concept of hidden hearing loss.

AI for Diagnosing Hearing Loss

0:30:00

Researchers are collaborating with Google to use AI to interpret genetic variants of unknown significance (VUSs) in deafness-causing genes, aiming to increase diagnostic accuracy from 50% to 80%.

Why this matters: This represents a significant leap in genetic diagnosis for hearing loss, addressing a long-standing challenge where many genetic tests yield inconclusive results.

Background

Currently, genetic testing for deafness-causing genes provides a definitive answer in only 50% of cases, with the other half often showing numerous VUSs that clinicians cannot interpret.

Dr. Stankovic highlights the current limitations of genetic testing for hearing loss, where only about half of patients receive a definitive diagnosis. The remaining cases often present with many 'variants of unknown significance' (VUSs), making it difficult to pinpoint the exact genetic cause. To overcome this, her team at Stanford is collaborating with Google to leverage AI. By applying AI tools, they aim to analyze these VUSs and determine their actual significance, thereby increasing the diagnostic success rate to 80%. This advancement is crucial for guiding more precise and effective therapies, as the current lack of specific diagnosis hinders targeted treatment approaches.

But now, one exciting research direction that we are pursuing with other investigators at Stanford, and in collaboration with Google, is to use AI to help us figure out which of these variants of unknown significance is actually significant.

Also said
“And by using those tools, we can establish the diagnosis in 80% of people.”— Quantifies the potential improvement in diagnostic accuracy.
“So, to the point that the American Academy of Otolaryngology-Head and Neck Surgery really endorses two main interventions. One is amplification with a hearing aid for those who need it, and two is cognitive behavioral therapy.”— Contextualizes the need for better diagnosis by showing current limited treatment options.

Auditory System's Role in Social and Cognitive Development

0:48:00

Hearing is critical for emotional well-being, relational connections, and cognitive function. Hearing loss can lead to social isolation, depression, and cognitive decline, with an unaddressed cost of nearly a trillion dollars annually.

Why this matters: This emphasizes the profound and often underestimated impact of hearing on overall human health and societal well-being, extending far beyond mere sound perception.

Background

Historically, hearing was primarily viewed as a sensory input for communication. However, its broader implications for mental and social health are gaining recognition.

Dr. Stankovic underscores the deep connection between hearing and various aspects of human life, including emotional well-being, social relationships, and cognitive function. She notes that hearing loss is not just about difficulty perceiving sound; it can lead to significant social isolation, depression, and a decline in cognitive abilities. The economic burden of unaddressed hearing loss is staggering, estimated at nearly a trillion dollars annually, due to impacts on employment, quality of life, and the need for extensive support systems. This highlights that hearing health is a critical public health issue with far-reaching consequences for individuals and society.

So now, there's mounting evidence for a strong link between hearing loss and dementia.

Also said
“The indirect link is super well established, because we know that hearing loss leads to social isolation, to depression, and cognitive decline.”— Explains the indirect mechanisms through which hearing loss impacts broader health.
“In fact, the cost of unaddressed hearing loss is the staggering nearly trillion dollars annually.”— Quantifies the immense societal and economic impact of unaddressed hearing loss.

Inner Ear's Resistance to Cancer

1:06:00

The inner ear is unique in that it does not develop primary cancers, a phenomenon that could offer insights into new cancer therapies.

Why this matters: This is a rare biological anomaly that could hold significant implications for cancer research, suggesting inherent protective mechanisms within the inner ear's cellular environment.

Background

While cancers can affect the outer ear, the inner ear itself is remarkably resistant to primary tumor formation, a fact that remains largely unexplained.

Dr. Stankovic points out a fascinating biological observation: the inner ear, unlike many other organs, does not develop primary cancers. While the outer ear can be affected by cancer, the delicate structures deep within the skull remain largely immune. This unique characteristic suggests that the inner ear possesses inherent protective mechanisms or cellular properties that prevent cancerous growth. Understanding these mechanisms could provide invaluable insights for developing novel cancer therapies, by identifying what makes this specific organ resistant to uncontrolled cell division.

What's also really interesting is that there isn't a primary cancer of the inner ear.

Also said
“That's another fascinating thing that could be used to potentially even develop new cancer therapies since there is an organ that doesn't get it.”— Highlights the potential therapeutic implications of this observation.
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Personal experience

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Notable quotes

Lines worth pulling out — contrarian, specific, or perfectly phrased

6 items
Hearing loss is a huge problem. It currently affects one and a half billion people and disables half a billion of them. And the World Health Organization estimates that another billion will be affected by 2050.
Highlights the massive scale and growing public health crisis of hearing loss.
So, in the inner ear, occurs this... It's called mechano-electrical transduction, because we are converting a mechanical stimulus into an electrical one.
Provides a concise and clear definition of the fundamental process of hearing at the cellular level.
The human organ of hearing, which is called the cochlea, in cross-section, is the size of Lincoln's upper face on a penny.
Offers a vivid and memorable analogy to illustrate the incredibly small and delicate nature of the cochlea.
It is the most sensitive sensory organ. It can detect displacements that are on the order of the diameter of a hydrogen atom. That's astounding.
Emphasizes the extraordinary sensitivity and precision of the human ear.
Deafness is a worse misfortune because it separates you from people as opposed to things.
A powerful quote from Helen Keller, underscoring the profound social and relational impact of hearing loss.
So, what I'm saying is that there is, as always, genetic predisposition and then the environment. And the environment can include what we take, what we eat, what our lifestyle is, what noise levels we're exposed to, what drugs we take, and all of that impacts our genetic predisposition.
Summarizes the complex interplay of genetics and environment in determining hearing health, a common theme in health science.

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Topics covered

hearing loss statisticshearing loss and dementiatinnitusauditory system mechanicseardrum vibrationossiclesinner ear fluidshair cellsmechano-electrical transductionconductive hearing losssensory neural hearing losscochlea sizeear sensitivityouter hair cellssound frequency and travelspeech frequencieshearing and emotionlimbic systemphantom soundASMR
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