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Episode
Why “Your Labs Are Normal” But You Still Feel Awful - Dr Gabrielle Lyon
~77 min
Episode Brief·YouTube

Why “Your Labs Are Normal” But You Still Feel Awful - Dr Gabrielle Lyon

Chris Williamson
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TL;DR

The four things you'd lose by not watching

4 items

TL;DR

The four things you'd lose by not watching

4 items
1

Environmental exposures like mold, parasites, and heavy metals are increasingly recognized as major contributors to chronic illness, often presenting with non-specific symptoms despite "normal" lab results.

2

Traditional medical diagnostics often fall short for complex environmental illnesses; alternative testing methods like microscopy for parasites and specialized environmental panels for mold are often necessary.

3

Sauna protocols (30-60 minutes at 113-176°F) are a key modality for detoxifying lipophilic chemicals stored in fat, with binders like cholestyramine or charcoal also used in some practices.

4

A patient's belief in their ability to heal significantly impacts recovery from complex illnesses, highlighting the interplay between physiology and mindset.

Protocols

Concrete recipes — what, when, how much, and why

4 items

Environmental Exposure Removal

WhatThe primary and most crucial step in addressing environmental illness is to remove oneself from the source of exposure.
WhenImmediately upon identification of the exposure source.
For whomAnyone suffering from environmental illness, particularly mold exposure.
WhyContinuing exposure negates any other treatment efforts and prevents healing.
CaveatsThis can be highly inconvenient and costly (e.g., moving houses).

The speaker emphasizes that no amount of treatment or detoxification will be effective if the individual remains in the environment causing the illness. Using mold as an example, she recounts her own experience of having to move out of her house due to pervasive mold, despite attempts at remediation. She highlights that while inconvenient, removing the source is non-negotiable for recovery. This foundational step is often overlooked or downplayed, but it is presented as the most impactful action a person can take.

Personal experience

The speaker had to move out of her house because of mold on every floor, which was affecting her and her son. Her husband and daughter were asymptomatic, illustrating the genetic component of sensitivity.

Well, number one, remove yourself from the exposure. Understanding where you're living, you ha you have got to move. I'm sorry, it's super inconvenient, but you cannot continue to be exposed to these things.

Also said
“My son and myself are sensitive. My husband and my daughter are not my kid. He woke up, he was like coughing, not feeling well, really low energy. And um I ended up having a forensic um inspector come in where they took wall cavities. And it turned out there was mold on every floor of our house. That's it. We had to move.”— Illustrates the personal necessity and impact of removing oneself from a moldy environment.

Sauna Protocols for Detoxification

WhatRegular sauna use to facilitate the excretion of lipophilic (fat-soluble) chemicals through sweat.
WhenTypically as part of a detoxification protocol, frequency not specified but implied to be regular.
Dose30 to 60 minutes at 113°F to 176°F (45-80°C).
For whomIndividuals with environmental illness, especially those with chemical exposures.
WhySauna helps the body excrete chemicals stored in fat, which are often environmental toxins.
CaveatsConsult a physician, especially if you have underlying health conditions. Some individuals may not tolerate high heat; infrared saunas can be an alternative.

The speaker highlights sauna as a top modality for supporting overall health and longevity, particularly for detoxification. She explains that many environmental toxins are lipophilic, meaning they are stored in fat. Sauna protocols, involving specific temperature ranges and durations, promote sweating, which serves as a crucial pathway for the body to eliminate these fat-soluble chemicals. While acknowledging that some literature might be questionable, she emphasizes its practical effectiveness and personal experience. For those who struggle with high heat, infrared saunas are suggested as a gentler alternative. Beyond detoxification, sauna also has documented benefits for reducing inflammation, as indicated by markers like hsCRP.

Mechanism

Heat from the sauna induces sweating, which is a pathway for the body to excrete fat-soluble organic solvents and other toxins that are stored in adipose tissue.

Personal experience

The speaker personally uses sauna and cold plunge, finding it beneficial. She also used sauna protocols as part of her own recovery from mold illness.

So there again, there is, you know, questionable data depending on what you're looking at in the literature. However, with sauna protocols, and this could be typically 30 to 60 minutes at from uh 113 degrees Fahrenheit to 176° F. This which is important obviously you talk to your physician but this is a way for lipohilic chemicals so the chemicals that are stored in fats to be released through the skin excretion of these organic solvents.

Also said
“I didn't get better that way. I had to be removed. I had to go through sauna protocols. I had to figure out ways to detox.”— Personal experience of using sauna for detoxification after mold exposure.
“Sauna has good data for decreasing inflammation, for decreasing things like HSCP, which is high sensitive high sensitivity C reactive protein. These are inflammatory markers.”— Provides additional health benefits of sauna beyond detoxification.

Parasite Testing (Microscopy)

WhatUtilizing old-school microscopy by a parasitologist for stool sample analysis, especially when PCR tests are negative but symptoms persist.
WhenWhen standard PCR stool tests for parasites are negative but the patient remains symptomatic.
DoseMultiple stool samples (e.g., 3-day sample) may be required.
For whomIndividuals with non-specific symptoms like fatigue, diarrhea, or abdominal bloating, particularly if they have a history of travel, raw food consumption, or exposure to infected partners/pets.
WhyStandard PCR tests, while theoretically highly sensitive, often miss parasites in real-world clinical practice, whereas direct microscopic examination can reveal them.
CaveatsThis is not the standard of care in infectious disease medicine, and finding an experienced parasitologist who performs microscopy can be challenging.

The speaker expresses significant disappointment with the efficacy of standard PCR tests for parasites, despite their supposed high sensitivity. She recounts cases where patients with clear symptoms repeatedly tested negative via PCR but were found to have worms or other parasites when their samples were examined by an 'old school parasitologist' using microscopy. This highlights a critical disconnect between theoretical diagnostic capabilities and real-world clinical outcomes. The speaker advocates for microscopy as a more reliable method for detecting parasites, especially in persistent, unexplained cases, even though it deviates from current standard medical practice.

Mechanism

Direct microscopic examination allows for visual identification of parasites (worms, amoebas) that might be missed by DNA-based PCR tests, possibly due to low parasite load or specific life cycle stages not detected by PCR.

Personal experience

The speaker had a patient who was very symptomatic but repeatedly tested negative with PCR. Sending him to an old-school parasitologist who used a slide and rectal exam revealed a handful of worms.

I will tell you this and this is quite disappointing is the way that we test for parasites is standardized and it's called a PCR test... That is not what we have found... We sent him to an old school paracytologist where they do a rectal exam, take a stool sample, look at it under a slide, and it turned out that he had a handful of worms.

Also said
“An infeious disease doctor listening to this would be like, "No, it's PCR testing. You're going to get it and you're going to find it." And the reality is we don't see that.”— Highlights the disagreement with standard medical practice regarding parasite testing.

H. pylori Treatment

WhatTreatment of H. pylori infection, typically with medications.
WhenUpon diagnosis of H. pylori, especially if symptomatic (e.g., reflux) or as a risk factor for cancer.
For whomIndividuals with H. pylori infection, particularly those experiencing reflux or with concerns about cancer risk.
WhyH. pylori is a bacteria that can cause reflux, slow digestion, and is a risk factor for certain types of cancer. It is not typically treatable naturally.
CaveatsRequires testing for diagnosis. Treatment is usually medical, not natural.

The speaker identifies H. pylori as a common gut issue, often asymptomatic but capable of causing significant problems like reflux and slowed digestion. She highlights its importance as a risk factor for certain cancers, particularly virulent strains. Crucially, she states that H. pylori is typically treated with medications, not natural remedies, emphasizing the need for a medical approach once diagnosed. This contrasts with the 'all-natural' extreme often seen in wellness circles, underscoring the need for evidence-based intervention when appropriate.

Mechanism

H. pylori is a bacterial infection that can colonize the stomach lining. Treatment aims to eradicate the bacteria, thereby reducing inflammation, improving gastric function, and mitigating cancer risk.

H pylori is um can be asymptomatic. So it's a bacteria. What it does is if someone say they have reflux and they are having a lot of reflux no matter what they're doing oftentimes we see H pylori it's very common some people are asymptomatic you can pass it along through saliva so if you're obviously kissing or you are a very sloppy drinker someone might drink out of your cup and they could also get H pelory but the reality is over time this is a risk for cancer H. pylori there can be virilent strains that um are risk factor for certain types of cancer um and that has to be treated and it's not treated naturally by the way typically uh again we're kind of in this zone where it's either all or nothing this is something that you know I typically treat with medications but I have to test

What's new

Personal practice updates, fresh positions, predictions

4 items

Environmental Factors as a Third Pillar of Health

0:40

The speaker has added 'environment' as a third crucial pillar of health alongside diet and exercise, recognizing its significant impact on well-being, often overlooked by traditional medicine.

Why this matters: This represents a fundamental shift in the speaker's understanding of health, moving beyond conventional lifestyle factors to include external exposures.

Background

Initially, the speaker, like many in conventional medicine, believed diet and exercise were the sole determinants of health. A patient's persistent illness despite adherence to diet and exercise forced a re-evaluation.

The speaker recounts a pivotal experience with a highly successful patient who was diligently following diet and exercise recommendations but continued to feel terrible and gain weight. This led to the realization that external exposures were significantly impacting her health. This personal anecdote underscores the speaker's shift in perspective, acknowledging that environmental factors like mold, heavy metals, and parasites can profoundly affect health, even when traditional lab markers appear normal. This area was not commonly considered at the beginning of her practice but is now seen as increasingly prevalent and impactful.

Personal experience

The speaker had a patient, a CEO, who was doing everything right with diet and exercise but felt terrible and gained weight. Years later, the speaker apologized to her, realizing that significant environmental exposures were the true cause. This experience was a catalyst for the speaker to broaden her understanding of health beyond just diet and exercise.

I had this patient very successful patient CEO of a major company. She was a female as she was doing everything she was supposed to diet and exercise-wise and she was feeling terrible and also gaining weight. I said, "No, no, no. It's definitely diet and exercise." And in fact, a handful of years later, I had to call and apologize because it wasn't just diet and exercise. She had significant exposures that really affected her health and wellness.

Diagnostic Uncertainty in Complex Illnesses

8:00

Many complex illnesses, particularly those related to environmental exposures, present with non-specific symptoms and often result in 'normal' lab values according to conventional medical standards, leading to diagnostic uncertainty.

Why this matters: This highlights a critical gap in mainstream medicine's ability to identify and treat conditions that significantly impair quality of life but don't fit established diagnostic criteria.

Background

Traditional medical training emphasizes algorithms and standardized care based on clear diagnostic criteria and biomarkers (e.g., blood sugar for diabetes, testosterone, thyroid hormones). However, environmental illnesses often don't manifest with these clear-cut markers.

The speaker emphasizes that while common biomarkers like testosterone and thyroid are important, a growing number of influences from the environment (mold, Lyme, parasites, heavy metals) are affecting people's mood, energy, cognition, and physical function in ways that are not captured by standard blood panels. This leads to patients being told their labs are 'perfect' despite feeling awful, often dismissed as psychological. The speaker argues that this diagnostic uncertainty is a major challenge, as the medical field is often slow to recognize and validate new areas of pathology, especially when they don't fit existing frameworks. This creates a situation where patients become 'medical nomads' searching for answers.

you know there's a a component to what you're saying that I think is really valuable and there's a level of diagnostic uncertainty and people go to their doctor and get all of these blood panels done and everything looks quote perfect when the reality is these are just a series of biomarkers that we're aware of and that are important

Also said
“The two things that you never want to hear as a patient, the first one is from a doctor saying, "We don't know what's wrong with you." And the second one is from a friend saying it's all in your head.”— Illustrates the patient's frustrating experience when facing diagnostic uncertainty.
“Medicine is built for following algorithms. Medicine is built for being able to create a standard of care. If you have a heart attack, you're in the ER, you will get this, this, and this.”— Explains why traditional medicine struggles with complex, non-algorithmic problems.

Emerging Biomarkers: Intramuscular Adipose Tissue

49:40

The speaker predicts a shift in focus from overall body fat percentage to the quality of muscle tissue and the infiltration of fat within it (intramuscular adipose tissue) as a more valuable biomarker for health and longevity.

Why this matters: This suggests a potential paradigm shift in how health is assessed, moving beyond simplistic body composition metrics to a more nuanced understanding of tissue health.

Background

Currently, body fat percentage is a widely used metric for health assessment, but the speaker believes it's an outdated and insufficient measure.

The speaker anticipates that future medical evaluations will place less emphasis on total body fat percentage and more on the quality of muscle tissue, specifically the presence of fat infiltrating within the muscle (intramuscular adipose tissue). This is because fat within muscle tissue could be a more accurate indicator of metabolic health and overall longevity. She speculates that fat-soluble environmental toxins might also be stored within this intramuscular fat, making its assessment even more critical for understanding and treating complex environmental illnesses. This re-evaluation of biomarkers is crucial for asking the 'right questions' about why someone isn't feeling well, especially when traditional labs appear normal.

I think that we're going to begin to see that it's the fat, the intramuscular atapost tissue. It's the the quality of the muscle tissue, the fat that infiltrates into that tissue is going to be arguably more valuable than understanding someone's body fat percentage.

Also said
“What if the exposures that are fat soluble are then then embedded into skeletal muscle because they're embedded into not just the visceral fat and the subcutaneous fat but the fat within muscle tissue.”— Connects the new biomarker to the storage of environmental toxins.

Impact of Technology on Health (Non-ionizing Radiation)

52:40

The speaker identifies the influence of technology, particularly non-ionizing radiation from devices like cell phones and Wi-Fi, as an untapped and potentially significant area of concern for human health.

Why this matters: This is a contrarian view to the current medical consensus that non-ionizing radiation is safe, suggesting a future frontier for environmental medicine.

Background

Current medical understanding generally categorizes non-ionizing radiation as harmless, distinguishing it from ionizing radiation (e.g., X-rays) which is known to be damaging.

While acknowledging the difficulty in proving harm without established testing methods, the speaker points to non-ionizing radiation from everyday technology (cell phones, Bluetooth, Wi-Fi) as a potential blind spot in health assessments. She contrasts this with the current medical consensus, which often deems such radiation safe. The speaker suggests that just as past beliefs about smoking or certain drugs were later proven wrong, the long-term effects of pervasive technological exposure might be underestimated. This area represents a challenge for future research and diagnostic development, as current language and testing for these effects are largely absent.

from my perspective the only untapped area would be the influence of technology and again this that's interesting but again that might be a foolish statement but from my perspective that is the one area that we have not really begin to or begun to explore for its health effects and I'm not even sure that we have a great language around it

Also said
“And he would say, "No, radiation is there's nonionizing and then there's ionizing. And the nonionizing is safe." And is that true? Or are we missing a whole influence on human health because of the way that we are surrounded by technology?”— Highlights the current medical consensus and the speaker's questioning of it.

Recommendations

Products, supplements, and tools mentioned in the episode

2 items

Team-Based Medical Approach

Practice

For complex illnesses, especially environmental ones, a team-based approach with a 'quarterback' physician coordinating multiple specialists is more effective than relying on a single provider.

The speaker criticizes the common practice of patients seeing individual specialists who view health through their narrow lens, leading to fragmented care for complex issues. She advocates for a collaborative model, similar to teaching institutions, where a core group of competent individuals (e.g., three specialists) works together, led by a 'quarterback' physician. This ensures a holistic view, considering lifestyle, diet, hormones, gut health, environment, and cardiovascular health, rather than isolating problems to one area. This approach is deemed essential for effective healing in the face of multi-factorial illnesses.

vs alternatives

Contrasted with the common scenario where patients become 'medical nomads' visiting many individual specialists without coordinated care.

Typically physicians are trained in one area and so they look at the lens through the lens of where they were trained and again as we have this increasingly complex dynamic of the world and how medicine should be handled is with a team right it's let's say you are going to an individual for fertility this individual who's assessing fertility would also really benefit from thinking about how is their lifestyle, what is their diet and exercise, what is their hormone um balance look like, but what about their gut health and what about their environment?

Also said
“Typically, it should be a core group, a handful of very competent individuals. Maybe it's three individuals. you have one quarterback and then you have um individuals placed in various specialties.”— Describes the ideal structure of a team-based approach.
Find Team-Based

Proactive Environmental Testing

Practice

If you know you are sensitive to certain environmental factors (e.g., VOCs, mold) or engage in high-risk behaviors (e.g., eating sushi), proactive testing and mitigation strategies are recommended.

The speaker advises that once an individual identifies specific sensitivities, they should proactively manage their environment and lifestyle. For instance, if sensitive to VOCs, using low-VOC paint or portable air filters in hotel rooms is suggested. For those who continue to eat raw fish, quarterly parasite testing might be a 'cost of doing business.' This proactive and personalized approach allows individuals to maintain their desired lifestyle while mitigating known risks, rather than living in constant trepidation.

If you know that you are sensitive to VOCC's then obviously um you're using low VOC paint or any of these other things air filtration. If for example this guy has unlimited resources what I would do if I was him is I would ship an air filter to be in my hotel room. I know it sounds crazy, but you can also bring these um air devices where you can actually test the air.

Also said
“if you know you are sensitive to mold, or if you are someone that just you're going to eat sushi no matter what, then perhap 3 months you should do or quarterly some kind of parasite testing.”— Provides specific examples of proactive testing based on known sensitivities or behaviors.
Find Proactive
Disclosed sponsorships2speaker disclosed

The Forever Strong Playbook

Book Sponsored · disclosed

A forthcoming book by Dr. Gabrielle Lyon, described as the book she originally wanted to write, offering protocols for sauna, training, eating, and thinking.

DisclosureThe speaker is the author of this book.

This is the original book that I had wanted to write, my first book, Forever Strong, but this the Forever Strong playbook is the book that I wish that I had had. Protocols, sauna protocols, training protocols, eating protocols, thinking protocols, probably the most important.

Find The

Strong Medical

Service Sponsored · disclosed

The speaker's medical practice.

DisclosureThe speaker runs this medical practice.

You can find me at Strong Medical, which is a medical practice.

Find Strong

Notable quotes

Lines worth pulling out — contrarian, specific, or perfectly phrased

5 items
I think that that's a brilliant way of saying it because right now, think about it. We're seeing a huge interest in hormone therapy, testosterone for both men and women, all of this stuff around hormones, and those have to be treated and those have to be uh within an optimal range if you're going to feel great. Thyroid, these are all things that are treated, have been treated. We have standards and this new influence or one that we're becoming more increasingly aware of is definitely environment and it comes and you can't get away from it.
Highlights the emerging importance of environmental factors as a new frontier in health, comparable to the established understanding of hormones and thyroid function.
I think that it is one of the explanations for why this conceptual inertia the fact that stuff doesn't move forward that quickly um it explains it to me and it must be frustrating if you're a forward thinking incl clinician in the world because you're having to fight on two fronts. First off, you're having to explore this new territory and try and work out what the [ __ ] is going on with this illness or this exposure or this metal or plastic microplastic whatever. And then you've got to fight the battle inside of the camp too, which is against your other uh peers and colleagues who are saying, well, you know, this is very speurious science. This doesn't seem to be evidence-based. We can't find any legitimacy in the sort of studies. It's rodent blah blah blah blah.
Articulates the significant challenges faced by clinicians exploring new areas of medicine, battling both the unknown and resistance from within the established medical community.
I think that we have to re-evaluate the old biomarkers that we've been using. I know this is going to sound crazy, but we've been focusing on body fat percentage as if this is just an example. As if this is the biomarker. I think that that is going to become less of a valuable biomarker.
Challenges a widely accepted health metric (body fat percentage) and predicts a future shift towards more nuanced biomarkers, demonstrating a forward-thinking perspective.
If you are listening to this and you know you are the type of person that pushes but for some reason you do not feel well then It is critical to have more exploration.
Offers a direct call to action and validation for high-achieving individuals who are suffering despite their resilience, encouraging them to seek deeper answers.
I never recommend eating raw fish. Period. End of story. And also rare meat either.
A strong, unequivocal statement against consuming raw fish and rare meat due to parasite risk, contrasting with common culinary practices.

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Topics covered

environmental healthcomplex illnessmold exposureparasitesheavy metalslyme diseasegut healthh. pylorileaky gutdiagnostic uncertaintybiomarkerssauna protocolsdetoxificationmicroplasticsnon-ionizing radiationtechnology impactmedical inertiateam-based carepatient beliefhormone therapy
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