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Episode
The Sleep Crisis in Menopause: Insomnia, Sleep Apnea & Solutions
~93 min
Episode Brief·YouTube

The Sleep Crisis in Menopause: Insomnia, Sleep Apnea & Solutions

Mary Claire Haver
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TL;DR

The four things you'd lose by not watching

4 items

TL;DR

The four things you'd lose by not watching

4 items
1

Dr. Matsumura reveals that up to 50% of menopausal women have obstructive sleep apnea, yet 90% are undiagnosed because standard screening tools are gender-biased and women's symptoms (insomnia, 'purring' not snoring) are misattributed.

2

Melatonin is a circadian clock starter—not a sedative—and natural production drops 50% by age 50 due to pineal gland calcification; OTC supplements are often impure, and doses over 3 mg cause nightmares.

3

Chronic insomnia in midlife is often a learned hypervigilance from cortisol shifts; the first-line treatment is cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia (CBT-I) combined with acceptance and commitment therapy to reduce performance anxiety—what she calls 'grit and grace.'

4

Restless leg syndrome affects up to 30% of postmenopausal women and is driven by low ferritin; the target ferritin for RLS is 100 ng/mL, far above the standard lab normal.

Protocols

Concrete recipes — what, when, how much, and why

8 items

CBT-I + ACT for Chronic Insomnia

WhatCombine cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia (stimulus control, sleep restriction, sleep hygiene) with acceptance and commitment therapy to retrain the brain's hypervigilance and reduce anxiety about sleeplessness.
WhenFor chronic insomnia (≥3 times/week for ≥3 months) after medical causes like sleep apnea or RLS are ruled out.
DoseOngoing daily practice; sleep restriction window initially set to average actual sleep time, then gradually expanded. Therapy sessions typically weekly over 6–8 weeks, or self-guided via apps/books.
For whomWomen in perimenopause and menopause with sleep-maintenance insomnia who have ruled out sleep apnea, RLS, and other disorders.
WhyMiddle-of-night awakenings in menopause involve learned hyperarousal and cortisol shifts. Standard CBT-I can worsen anxiety, so adding ACT (giving yourself permission to be awake without catastrophizing) improves adherence and outcomes.
CaveatsRequires consistency; early phase sleep restriction may worsen daytime fatigue temporarily. Not suitable if untreated severe depression or bipolar disorder without specialist oversight. Avoid stimulating activities during nighttime awakening.

Dr. Matsumura describes how the brain's sleep pathway changes after repeated nighttime awakenings, creating a conditioned hypervigilance. The treatment has three core components: 1) Sleep hygiene (consistent bed/wake times, dark cool quiet bedroom, avoiding large meals and stimulants before bed); 2) Stimulus control (if awake after 20 minutes, get out of bed and do something boring until sleepy—'make sure your brain associates the bed with sleep or intimacy and nothing else'); 3) Sleep restriction (compress sleep to match actual sleep amount, then slowly extend—'accordion effect'). Because many women already have performance anxiety about sleep, she integrates ACT, teaching them to accept being awake and not let it ruin the next day. She calls this 'grit and grace.' Few studies combine the two, but her clinical experience shows higher success.

Mechanism

CBT-I breaks the conditioned association between bed and wakefulness, builds homeostatic sleep drive through restricted time in bed, and reduces hyperarousal. ACT dampens the secondary sympathetic activation triggered by fear of not sleeping, lowering cortisol and promoting natural sleep onset.

Personal experience

She practices this blended method in her own sleep clinic and says it is how she helps people with insomnia, finding that pure CBT-I can drive anxiety in women.

That is called stimulus control, fancy word for making sure that your brain associates the bed with sleep or intimacy and nothing else.

Also said
“If you think you're only getting 5 and 1/2 hours of sleep, then that's how much time you should give yourself. ... we start to help people kind of compress their sleep so that they can then expand their sleep.”— Explains the sleep restriction step.
“I call CBT-I the grit and acceptance and commitment therapy or act the grace. So if you can combine those two, I think you have a higher success rate.”— Summates the rationale for the hybrid approach.

Optimize Sleep Environment (Dark, Cool, Quiet)

WhatEnsure the bedroom is completely dark (blackout shades or eye mask), cool (around 65–68°F), and quiet. Use an eye mask that provides gentle pressure if comfortable.
WhenEvery night during sleep.
DosePermanent environmental adjustment.
For whomAnyone with sleep difficulties, especially women experiencing hot flashes or light sensitivity.
WhyDarkness triggers melatonin release from the pineal gland; cool temperature supports the natural drop in core body temperature needed for sleep; silence reduces cortical arousals.
CaveatsEye masks may not suit those with trauma related to blindness; blackout curtains are an alternative. Individual comfort with pressure masks varies.

Dr. Matsumura emphasizes that even small amounts of light can disrupt the circadian signal. Temperature regulation is crucial for menopausal women because estrogen loss impairs thermoregulation, so a cooler room can compensate. She's a big fan of eye masks, noting that the slight pressure around the eyes induces a calming reflex. She collaborated with Kilo Silk to design one that doesn't crush eyelashes. Quiet is relative; white noise can be used if complete silence is unachievable.

Mechanism

Photoreceptors in the retina signal the SCN; darkness disinhibits pineal melatonin secretion. Cool ambient temperature facilitates the peripheral vasodilation and core temperature drop necessary for sleep initiation. Eye pressure may stimulate vagal tone via the oculocardiac reflex.

Personal experience

She designed an eye mask with Kilo Silk and loves it; she uses one herself. Mary Claire disclosed that an eye mask would frighten her due to past trauma, which Dr. Matsumura validated.

You want it to be dark, cool, and quiet. Those are your big three.

Also said
“I'm a big fan of eye masks. I love a good eye mask.”— Personal endorsement.
“that tiny little bit of pressure around the eye actually induces calming.”— Mechanism of calming effect.

Melatonin Dosing ≤3 mg from Trusted Source

WhatIf using melatonin, take no more than 3 mg, ideally 0.5–3 mg, 30–60 minutes before bed in dim light. Choose a brand that is third-party tested for purity.
WhenFor circadian rhythm misalignment, jet lag, or age-related melatonin decline; not as a nightly sedative.
Dose0.5–3 mg per night; short-term use preferred. Higher doses not recommended.
For whomAdults over 50 with sleep-onset difficulty, shift workers transitioning schedules, travelers.
WhyMelatonin is a clock starter, not a sleep aid. Doses above 3 mg increase the risk of nightmares, grogginess, and expose users to impure OTC products (70% contain undisclosed substances).
CaveatsMelatonin can cause vivid dreams even at low doses. It does not cure insomnia or sleep apnea. Quality of OTC supplements is unreliable; look for USP or NSF certification. Not for long-term reliance without addressing underlying cause.

Melatonin is a hormone secreted by the pineal gland in darkness. It initiates the sleep cascade but does not force sleep. Production drops with age due to pineal calcification. She debunks the common practice of taking 5–10 mg: more is not better and frequently leads to nightmares because melatonin intensifies REM sleep. The OTC market is poorly regulated—studies show most products contain fillers or other compounds not on the label. She recommends using the lowest effective dose and ideally sourcing from a reputable manufacturer to avoid contaminants.

Mechanism

Melatonin binds to MT1 and MT2 receptors in the suprachiasmatic nucleus, reducing neuronal firing and shifting circadian phase. Excess melatonin can prolong REM duration and increase dream intensity, leading to nightmares.

Personal experience

Mary Claire Haver's experience of taking 10 mg melatonin and having horrible nightmares and a hungover feeling was used by Dr. Matsumura as a teaching example.

anything over 3 mg. 3 mg is the max that I would recommend for anyone. ... More is not better.

Also said
“at least 70% of the melatonin that is sold over the counter is not just melatonin.”— Warns about OTC impurity.

Regular Cardiovascular Exercise (Timed Appropriately)

WhatEngage in daily cardiovascular exercise that raises heart rate (brisk walking, swimming, cycling) but avoid vigorous workouts within 1–2 hours before bedtime.
WhenMost days of the week; best completed in the morning or afternoon.
DoseAt least 150 minutes per week of moderate-intensity or equivalent. Evening exercise should be light stretching or yoga if close to bedtime.
For whomAll women, especially those with sleep onset or maintenance problems.
WhyExercise increases adenosine, promotes deeper slow-wave sleep, and reduces stress hormones; late-night intense exercise can be too stimulating for some.
CaveatsIndividual variability: some people can exercise late without issue; track your response.

Dr. Matsumura states that any movement that raises the heart rate helps you get into all stages of sleep more soundly. She doesn't prescribe a specific type, emphasizing that walking fast, swimming laps, or any activity works. She warns against overcomplicating with gadgets or special therapies—basic consistent movement is what counts. The emphasis is on daily habits, not extreme regimens.

Mechanism

Exercise increases adenosine accumulation in the basal forebrain, promoting sleep pressure; it also reduces cortisol and increases body temperature, which then drops post-exercise, facilitating sleep onset.

Personal experience

She notes her own triathlon training but admits she doesn't swim, so she finds other cardio.

Any kind of movement, you know, as long as you're out there raising your heart rate a little bit, that's all that counts.

Also said
“exercising actually does help you get into all the different stages of sleep better. You just have more sound sleep.”— Summarizes the benefit.

Avoid Heavy, Fatty Meals Close to Bedtime

WhatFinish the last large meal at least 2–3 hours before bed; if hungry later, opt for a light, easily digestible snack. Focus on a whole-foods diet rich in vegetables, fruits, lean protein.
WhenEvening eating window; daily dietary pattern.
DoseOngoing.
For whomAnyone with indigestion or sleep disruption related to eating patterns.
WhyHigh-fat, greasy meals delay gastric emptying, cause reflux, and raise metabolic rate, interfering with sleep architecture. Nutrient-dense diet supports overall health and sleep.
CaveatsNo specific dietary protocol; she recommends basic healthy eating without overcomplication.

She notes that heavy, saturated fat-laden foods are not conducive to quality sleep. While she doesn't advocate for extreme diets, she reinforces that what you eat during the day—particularly the evening meal—can affect your ability to fall and stay asleep. She wants women to focus on fundamentals: vegetables, fruits, adequate protein, some carbs, and not overcomplicate with expensive wearables or light therapy unless basic habits are already optimized.

Mechanism

Digestion increases metabolic heat and gut activity, which can prevent the core temperature drop required for sleep; high-fat meals may exacerbate GERD, causing nocturnal arousals.

if you eat too heavy of a meal too close to bedtime, that affects your ability to get into the right stages of sleep.

Also said
“if you're eating nothing but greasy junk food, it definitely affects the other parts of your body that then affect your ability to get to sleep.”— Connects diet quality to sleep.

Align Sleep Schedule with Your Chronotype

WhatDetermine if you are an early bird (Artemis), night owl (Aphrodite), or intermediate (Athena), and set your bedtime and wake time to match your innate circadian rhythm as closely as possible.
WhenWhen choosing daily sleep/wake times, especially if you have flexibility.
DoseOngoing.
For whomAnyone, but especially women who stay up late to match a partner's schedule or societal demands.
WhyChronotype is genetically determined by clock genes; fighting it causes chronic sleep deprivation and circadian misalignment, which increases health risks.
CaveatsNight owls with rigid early-morning obligations may need circadian realignment strategies; it's not always possible to fully honor the chronotype.

She describes that many women come in as people-pleasers, trying to go to bed when their partner goes to bed, even if that partner is a night owl and they are an early bird, leading to years of sleep deprivation. She notes that people often marry opposite chronotypes. While you can 'fake out' the clock genes with light therapy and consistent scheduling, it's healthier to align where possible. The DREAM method includes 'A for Archetype' to highlight this.

Mechanism

The suprachiasmatic nucleus contains clock genes that drive a near-24-hour rhythm; misalignment between internal clock and external schedule disrupts all peripheral cellular clocks, increasing risk for metabolic syndrome, cardiovascular disease, and cancer.

Personal experience

Mary Claire identifies as an early bird ('badass in the morning') and goes to bed at 8:30 pm, which Andrea confirms is a classic early-bird pattern.

You have to honor your own chronotype. It's better for your health.

Also said
“A lot of women will come in and they try to follow their partners chronotype because they are people pleasers. ... they're just dying of chronic sleep deprivation.”— Highlights a common but harmful behavior.

Shift Work Sleep Restoration Protocol

WhatAfter quitting shift work, prioritize a consistent sleep schedule, a dark sleeping environment, and active treatment of any underlying sleep disorders (sleep apnea, insomnia) to reverse long-term health risks.
WhenAs soon as possible after discontinuing shift work.
DoseUntil sleep normalizes and health markers improve; ongoing maintenance.
For whomWomen who performed night shifts or rotating shifts for years and are now experiencing poor sleep or health consequences.
WhyData shows that treating sleep disorders can return a former shift worker to baseline health, mitigating the elevated risk of dementia, cancer, and cardiovascular disease.
CaveatsSome damage from long-term circadian disruption may not be fully reversible, but early treatment of sleep apnea and insomnia significantly improves prognosis.

Shift work forces the body to operate against its natural circadian rhythms, causing chaos in every cell. This leads to oxidative stress, immune dysfunction, and accumulation of brain waste products due to poor glymphatic clearance during misaligned sleep. Dr. Matsumura offers hope: studies demonstrate that when sleep apnea is treated with CPAP or an oral appliance, and insomnia is addressed with CBT-I, biomarkers begin to normalize. Mary Claire shared her own experience of brutal 24-hour shifts as a hospitalist during COVID, feeling like a basket case. Dr. Matsumura reassured her that it's possible to repair the damage.

Mechanism

Restoring entrained sleep allows the glymphatic system to clear amyloid-beta, reduces systemic inflammation, and realigns peripheral clocks, improving metabolic and cardiovascular function.

Personal experience

Mary Claire's story: she stopped shift work as her 50th birthday gift, and Dr. Matsumura confirmed that with appropriate treatment, recovery is possible.

There is good data out there that shows that, you know, if somebody has untreated sleep apnea or untreated insomnia, that once we begin to treat it, you can get yourself back to baseline.

Also said
“shift workers have this disruption. ... every cell works on a circadian rhythm. So, then every ... chaos inside the body.”— Explains the systemic impact of shift work.

DREAM Method Sleep Assessment

WhatPerform a comprehensive self-assessment using the DREAM acronym: Daytime activity, Resting environment, Emotions, Archetype (chronotype), Medical conditions—to identify all possible contributors to poor sleep.
WhenWhen first evaluating chronic sleep issues or after basic fixes fail.
DoseOne-time assessment, then periodically re-evaluate.
For whomAny woman with persistent insomnia or unrefreshing sleep, especially if she's been dismissed.
WhyMany women are told a home sleep study ruled out apnea and nothing else can be done; DREAM expands the investigation to include behavioral, environmental, emotional, and medical factors.
CaveatsThis is a framework, not a substitute for professional diagnosis. Medical conditions (M) require specific testing (polysomnography, ferritin, etc.).

Dr. Matsumura created the DREAM method after seeing too many women who had been told 'you don't have sleep apnea, so there's nothing we can do.' The acronym ensures all bases are covered: D—Daytime activity (exercise, nutrition, stress), R—Resting environment (dark, cool, quiet), E—Emotions (depression, anxiety, trauma), A—Archetype (early bird, night owl, intermediate), M—Medical conditions (apnea, RLS, menopause, nocturia, neurological issues). It's a holistic checklist that empowers women to have a more productive conversation with their provider.

Mechanism

Not a biological mechanism per se; it's a diagnostic framework to uncover multi-factorial sleep disrupters.

Personal experience

She developed it after seeing countless hopeless patients and finding that addressing all components, not just one, was key to improvement.

So, I realized that there's all of these other factors that could be affecting people sleep that are not really getting addressed. So, the dream sleep method is basically an acronym for all of those bases to cover.

Also said
“D is your daytime activity. R is the resting environment. E are the emotions. A is archetype or your chronotype. And then the last one are medical conditions.”— Breaks down the acronym explicitly.

What's new

Personal practice updates, fresh positions, predictions

5 items

melatonin-age-decline

Natural melatonin production drops by up to 50% by age 50 because the pineal gland calcifies, challenging the notion that poor sleep is an inevitable part of normal aging.

Why this matters: This is rarely taught even in sleep medicine fellowships; she learned it only after her training, upending the assumption that older adults just need less sleep.

Background

The prevailing teaching is that sleep quantity decreases with age and is 'normal,' so patients are told to accept it. Dr. Matsumura discovered that a biological mechanism—pineal calcification—is the true driver, meaning it's not inevitable if circadian support is provided.

Melatonin is a hormone produced by the pineal gland. It serves as a 'clock starter' by beginning the sleep cascade in the absence of light, and it also regulates circadian rhythm. She points out that the pineal gland is the first gland in the body to calcify, leading to a steep decline in melatonin secretion, which directly contributes to age-related sleep fragmentation. Despite this, most doctors simply tell patients that sleeping less is normal. She emphasizes that we shouldn't accept that as a quality-of-life sentence; there are ways to support circadian signaling.

Personal experience

She admits that during her sleep medicine fellowship, 'I did not get taught... that we actually lose melatonin production as we age,' and she was struck by the data when she discovered it later. She does not routinely test saliva melatonin in her clinic but now recognizes the biological basis for older women's sleep struggles.

I did not get taught in my sleep medicine fellowship is that we actually lose melatonin production as we age. Like how much? Well, up to 50% by age 50, which I had no idea about and I did not realize that the pineal gland is the first gland in the body to calcify.

Also said
“Melatonin's a hormone. ... it's really a clock starter. It is not a sleep aid. It is starting the cascade of sleep, but it is also a circadian rhythm regulator.”— Clarifies the precise role of melatonin, which is often misunderstood as a sedative.
“And that whole stereotype of the older person coming in... the only thing I was taught about sleep is you sleep less as you get older. ... maybe it's expected, but should it be normal?”— Frames the societal acceptance of poor sleep as a problem to be challenged.

progesterone-sleep-benefit

Despite a Menopause Society president's statement against recommending progesterone for sleep, clinical experience shows that many women find it profoundly calming and sleep-promoting; the lack of data on sleep apnea doesn't negate its real-world benefit.

Why this matters: Highlights a gap between official guidance (based on limited studies) and patient/clinician experience, underscoring the need for better research on HRT and sleep.

Background

At the year's Menopause Society meeting, the incoming president, a psychiatrist, reportedly said 'do not recommend progesterone for sleep.' Dr. Matsumura was surprised, as she and many colleagues routinely see progesterone help women fall asleep.

Progesterone has GABAergic properties that calm the brain and help set the stage for sleep. It also supports the soft tissues at the back of the throat, potentially aiding airway stability. There are no large RCTs showing it cures obstructive sleep apnea, but that doesn't mean it doesn't relieve insomnia—a separate issue. She points out that we aren't asking the right questions if science dismisses a therapy that helps a thousand patients. The lack of evidence doesn't equal lack of effect; it simply reflects underfunded women's health research.

Personal experience

Dr. Matsumura notes: 'I have a thousand patients who will testify right now.' She is adamant that the clinical signal is too strong to ignore.

I have a thousand patients who will testify right now. 100% I'm like, we're not asking the right questions if science isn't recognizing how progesterone is helpful for some patients for sleep.

Also said
“Progesterone is really about it's got a lot of what we call GABA GABAergic potential, so really helps calm the brain. It also helps to support the structures at the back of the throat.”— Explains two mechanisms by which progesterone can improve sleep.
“There isn't any data that says that progesterone is curative for let's say obstructive sleep apnea, right? But we all know that it can help with getting women to sleep and calming.”— Shows the nuance she applies: not a cure for apnea, but still clinically useful.

cbt-i-with-act

Chronic insomnia in midlife is a learned hypervigilance driven by neuroendocrine changes; combining cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia (the grit) with acceptance and commitment therapy (the grace) yields greater success than rigid protocols alone.

Why this matters: Standard sleep medicine often emphasizes strict sleep restriction and stimulus control, which can increase anxiety in women. This blended approach is a more compassionate, evidence-informed evolution.

Background

Middle-of-the-night awakenings are common in perimenopause/menopause due to cortisol spikes and shifting neurosteroids. Typical CBT-I can feel punishing, so Dr. Matsumura adapted it by adding ACT principles that reduce catastrophizing.

She describes how early-morning awakenings result from a cortisol shift and then the brain learns a hyperarousal pathway. CBT-I includes three components: sleep hygiene, stimulus control (get out of bed and do something boring until sleepy), and sleep restriction (compress the sleep window to consolidate it, like an accordion). However, strict adherence can spike anxiety about sleep performance. By integrating acceptance and commitment therapy, women are taught to acknowledge 'I'm going to be awake for 90 minutes and I won't let it ruin my day,' which breaks the cycle of fear and hypervigilance. She calls this combination 'grit and grace' and finds it has a higher real-world success rate in her practice, even though few formal studies examine the dual approach.

Personal experience

She practices this blended method in her clinic and says she focuses on it when helping people with insomnia, as strict CBT-I often drives anxiety in women.

I call CBT-I the grit and acceptance and commitment therapy or act the grace. So if you can combine those two, I think you have a higher success rate.

Also said
“If you think you're only getting 5 and 1/2 hours of sleep, then that's how much time you should give yourself. ... we start to help people kind of compress their sleep so that they can then expand their sleep. So, I call this the accordion effect.”— Illustrates the sleep restriction technique she uses.
“Instead of saying, 'Oh my gosh, I'm not going to do well tomorrow,' that you say, 'You know what? I'm going to be awake for 90 minutes tonight and I'm not going to let it ruin my day.'”— Demonstrates the ACT component of giving oneself grace.

female-sleep-apnea-misdiagnosis

Women with sleep apnea rarely present like men; they have insomnia, 'purring,' and are systematically missed by gender-biased screening tools, resulting in 90% of cases going undiagnosed at a time of high cardiovascular and cognitive risk.

Why this matters: This radically reframes how clinicians must think about sleep apnea in women—it's not a disease of heavy, snoring men. The STOP-BANG questionnaire actively disadvantages women by giving zero points for female sex.

Background

Sleep apnea was traditionally considered a condition of overweight, older men who snore loudly and stop breathing. Screening questionnaires were validated mostly in male populations, so women's symptoms (insomnia, frequent awakenings, 'purring' not snoring) are not flagged.

Up to 50% of postmenopausal women have obstructive sleep apnea, but 90% are unaware. Women often say 'I just don't feel right' or 'I don't know if I'm depressed because I'm sleepy or sleepy because I'm depressed.' They are sent to sleep doctors as a last resort. Even bed partners may not witness apneas because the signs are subtler—mild snoring or purring. The STOP-BANG screening questionnaire includes 'Gender' as a point: if you are male, you get a point; female, you don't. This artificially lowers women's scores, decreasing the likelihood of a referral for a sleep study. The consequence is a huge diagnostic delay that elevates risk for heart attack, stroke, and dementia, all of which are exacerbated by the chronic low-oxygen state of untreated apnea.

Personal experience

When she started her sleep practice, word spread that she listened to women, and suddenly most of her appointments were women. She noticed the pattern of dismissed symptoms and started digging into the literature.

Up to 50% of women will have sleep apnea and not know they have it. 90% of those women do not know that they have sleep apnea. So, nine out of 10 women are not diagnosed.

Also said
“Women don't typically present with loud snoring, witnessed apneas. ... women tend to have insomnia. ... Women never say that they snore, they say that they purr.”— Captures the gendered language and symptom presentation.
“The STOP-BANG questionnaire, which is this acronym for these questions, the G is gender. So, if you're a woman you don't get a point. You get a lower score.”— Exposes the structural bias embedded in mainstream diagnostic tools.

melatonin-otc-impurities

Over 70% of OTC melatonin products contain substances other than melatonin, and doses above 3 mg frequently cause nightmares and next-day grogginess without providing better sleep.

Why this matters: Most consumers assume OTC melatonin is pure and that higher doses are more effective; the reality is a poorly regulated market with potential contaminants and dose-dependent side effects.

Background

Melatonin is widely used as a first-line sleep aid, often in 5–10 mg doses. Dr. Matsumura warns that the industry is unregulated and that many formulations contain fillers or other compounds not listed on the label.

Melatonin intensifies REM sleep, which can convert normal dreams into vivid nightmares, especially at high doses. She cites studies showing at least 70% of melatonin sold OTC is not just melatonin. Taking 10 mg, as Mary Claire had done, left her with horrible nightmares and a drugged hangover. Dr. Matsumura caps the safe dose at 3 mg and advises carefully choosing brands that have been third-party purity tested. Even low-dose melatonin can cause intense dreaming, but the risk escalates with higher, impure products.

Personal experience

Mary Claire shared her own experience with 10 mg melatonin causing nightmares and grogginess, which Dr. Matsumura used to illustrate the problem.

at least 70% of the melatonin that is sold over the counter is not just melatonin. ... there's something else in it. Wow. And so we just need to be really careful.

Also said
“anything over 3 mg. 3 mg is the max that I would recommend for anyone. ... More is not better.”— Gives the firm dosing ceiling.

Recommendations

Products, supplements, and tools mentioned in the episode

2 items

Cognitive Behavioral Therapy for Insomnia (CBT-I) Programs / Sleep Psychologists

Practice

For chronic insomnia, she strongly recommends CBT-I, available via sleep psychologists, online programs, apps, or books. She stresses the importance of using a complete program that includes stimulus control, sleep restriction, and sleep hygiene—preferably with acceptance-based components.

There are apps out there, there are sleep psychologists out there, there are online programs, there are books. The key is consistency and you really have to address all of the components that are in cognitive behavioral therapy.

Find Cognitive

American Academy of Sleep Medicine Provider Search

Service

To find a board-certified sleep specialist, she directs listeners to the AASM website, which maintains a list of qualified providers in every city.

You can look online on the American Academy of Sleep Medicine has a list of providers. There are sleep providers in just about every city.

Find American
Disclosed sponsorships2speaker disclosed

Kilo Silk Eye Mask

Product Sponsored · disclosed

Recommended as part of optimizing the sleep environment—darkness and gentle pressure around the eyes induce calm. Her design includes pads to accommodate eyelash extensions.

DisclosureDr. Matsumura collaborated with Kilo Silk to create this eye mask.

Personal experience

She personally uses and loves it; she designed it.

I did this collaboration with Kilo Silk and I love it and I made little eye little pads, little pillows for so that if you wear eyelashes, it doesn't affect your eyelashes.

Find Kilo

Co-developed Sleep Supplement (unnamed)

Supplement Sponsored · disclosed

Dr. Matsumura emphasized that she prefers evidence-based components with clear mechanisms; this supplement was developed to support circadian rhythm and relaxation without being a sedative. The exact ingredients are not detailed in this interview.

DisclosureDr. Matsumura partnered with Dr. Mary Claire Haver to formulate this sleep supplement.

What I like to focus on are things that are evidence-based that we have a lot of data on. So, we have a lot of data on the components that we put into this sleep supplement and we know exactly what they are doing.

Find Co-developed

Notable quotes

Lines worth pulling out — contrarian, specific, or perfectly phrased

5 items
I am really tired of the normalization of women suffering in society. ... We are taught that we are supposed to suffer more.
Captures the core ethos of her career—rejecting the idea that women's pain is baseline and must be endured without intervention.
The girls aren't sleeping and it's literally breaking our hearts and our brains.
A visceral summary of the public health stakes of sleep deprivation in women.
It is not a couch to 5K, it is a couch to marathon.
Memorable analogy for how slowly and consistently insomnia must be treated; perfectionism is the enemy.
There is always something we can do to help you get better sleep. All is not lost.
A hopeful mantra that counters the despair many women feel after years of failed sleep remedies.
Sleep is truly our core pillar of health.
Succinctly elevates sleep to the same foundational importance as nutrition and exercise.

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Topics covered

women-sleep-complaints-minimizednormalization-of-sufferinginsomnia-definition-prevalencesleep-stages-restorativewearable-trackers-limitationsmelatonin-as-clock-starter-not-sleep-aidmelatonin-age-decline-pineal-calcificationprogesterone-sleep-debaterls-ferritin-targetfemale-sleep-apnea-misdiagnosiscbt-i-plus-actsleep-restriction-therapystimulus-controlsleep-environment-dark-cool-quietexercise-nutrition-sleepchronotype-circadian-rhythmshift-work-recoveryhormone-therapy-and-sleepambien-trazodone-riskscomisa-comorbidity-insomnia-apnea
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