Episode

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Dave Pascoe's 2025 Routine for Staying Ripped at 62

Siim Land

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TL;DR

The four things you'd lose by not watching

4 items

TL;DR

The four things you'd lose by not watching

4 items

Dave Pascoe, 62, maintains a ripped physique and runs half-marathons, but has switched from heavy weights to KAATSU blood-flow restriction bands due to shoulder rehab after stem cells.

His favorite sleep aid is a shot of tart cherry juice before bed; it stops him waking at night, whereas melatonin wakes him up at 4 a.m. and fails on the second night.

He now cycles his supplements: mTOR/performance-boosting supplements 5 days a week, autophagy-activators only on weekends to avoid conflicting signals.

A gut sensitivity test revealed he reacts to foods he eats daily (mushrooms, hemp seeds) even without obvious symptoms, but casein—which the test cleared—gives him severe gas, highlighting the gap between immune sensitivity and gut microbiome reactions.

Protocols

Concrete recipes — what, when, how much, and why

7 items

Tart cherry juice before bed for sleep maintenance

WhatTake a shot (roughly 1–2 oz) of tart cherry juice right before bed.

WhenJust before going to sleep, especially if you tend to wake up in the middle of the night.

DoseA 'shot' (quantity not specified, likely 1–2 oz).

For whomIndividuals who fall asleep easily but struggle with middle-of-the-night waking. Not primarily for sleep-onset issues.

WhyTart cherry juice naturally contains melatonin and antioxidants that help the body produce its own endogenous melatonin, promoting uninterrupted sleep without the early-morning awakening some people experience with melatonin supplements.

CaveatsIndividual response varies; Dave found melatonin supplements ineffective and even counterproductive (waking at 4 a.m., failure on day two). Tart cherry juice is a food, not a pharmaceutical, so it may not be strong enough for severe insomnia.

Dave’s personal experience is that melatonin gave him a good first night but then failed catastrophically—on the second night he was wide awake from the start. Tart cherry juice, by contrast, consistently lets him sleep through the night. He didn’t measure his melatonin levels, but the host’s mechanistic insight—that the gut produces melatonin with support from tart cherry—aligns with the idea that providing substrates and antioxidants, not just the hormone, helps sustain sleep architecture. This protocol is simple, low-cost, and food-based, making it an accessible first-line intervention for maintenance insomnia.

Mechanism

Tart cherry juice is a natural source of melatonin and polyphenolic antioxidants. Unlike exogenous melatonin pills that can cause a rapid spike and then drop, the juice may support the gut's production of melatonin in a more gradual, physiological pattern. The antioxidants may also reduce inflammation that contributes to nocturnal awakening.

Personal experience

Dave said: 'My favorite though is tart cherry juice. Really seems to help me stay asleep. I have no problem going to sleep. My problem is I wake up in the middle of the night, but if I do a shot of tart cherry juice, I can sleep straight through the night.' He also noted that melatonin 'wake me up at 4:00 a.m. and then I'm wide awake' and that on the second night of melatonin he was 'wide awake from the start.'

My favorite though is tart cherry juice. Really seems to help me stay asleep. I have no problem going to sleep. My problem is I wake up in the middle of the night, but if I do a shot of tart cherry juice, I can sleep straight through the night.

Also said

“if I just do melatonin, I it'll wake me up at 4:00 a.m. and then I'm wide awake and I can't go back to sleep.”— Direct negative experience with the alternative supplement.

“it might help the first night, but then the second night, no. I mean, wide awake from the start.”— Documents melatonin's rapid tolerance/tachyphylaxis in his case.

KAATSU blood flow restriction bands with light weights

WhatWear KAATSU (blood flow restriction) bands on the upper arms/legs while performing low-load resistance exercises or even during everyday activities to achieve muscle pump and strength gains with reduced joint stress.

WhenDuring rehabilitation, when unable to lift heavy due to injury, or for older individuals wanting to minimize injury risk. Dave uses them during his P90X-style workouts with lighter weights; he also wears them around the house doing chores to get a passive pump.

DoseBands on, 20–30% of one-rep max loads, or just normal daily activities. Not specified as a strict set/rep scheme; workout duration typical of his P90X sessions.

For whomOlder adults, injured individuals (especially shoulder rehab like Dave’s), anyone who wants muscle hypertrophy or maintenance without heavy joint loads. Siim Land also uses them while working at his computer.

WhyBFR restricts venous return, creating metabolic stress that signals muscle protein synthesis and growth despite low mechanical tension—ideal for rehab, injury prevention, and anti-aging training.

CaveatsBFR is contraindicated for people with blood clotting disorders, severe hypertension, or vascular issues. Bands must be applied at the correct pressure to avoid nerve damage. Dave had stem cell treatment on his shoulder, so he’s using BFR as part of a supervised rehab—consult a professional.

Dave injured his shoulder and had stem cell therapy. Returning to P90X—which involves pull-ups, push-ups, and weights—was risky. He switched to lighter weights with KAATSU bands, noting he gets a great pump and the workout feels harder even with less iron. Siim Land adds that even just wearing the bands while typing on a computer gives him a pump, suggesting the effect is robust with minimal effort. The bands allow Dave to continue his beloved P90X while his shoulder heals, and he believes it’s a safer option for aging joints. Dave even jokes that wearing them while washing dishes makes his arms look like he just did a massive workout. This protocol appeals to anyone who wants anabolic stimulus without compressive joint loading.

Mechanism

BFR reduces oxygen supply to the muscle, causing metabolite accumulation (lactate, etc.) that stimulates growth hormone release and activates muscle hypertrophy pathways. This allows low-load exercise to recruit fast-twitch fibers and create a growth signal similar to heavy resistance training, while sparing tendons and joints from high forces.

Personal experience

Dave: 'I'm finding that in my rehab, I'm doing uh my workouts now with lighter weight, but using uh katsu bands… I get a good pump from that. It makes the workout harder, right? With even lighter weight. Yeah. So less less chance of getting injured.' He also says he can put them on and go about his day and 'my arms will just start getting this huge swell pump. So, it looks like I just did a massive workout when I'm just going about, you know, the kitchen washing dishes.'

I'm finding that in my rehab, I'm doing uh my workouts now with lighter weight, but using uh katsu bands, so the blood flow restriction bands. Yeah. And I I get a good pump from that. It makes the workout harder, right? With even lighter weight.

Also said

“if you're injured and you can't like do the full movement or the full weight, you put the katu bands and you get the same signal to your body with very light weights without damaging your joints even further.”— Summarizes the key benefit for injury and aging.

“I can put them on and just go about my day, not even do a workout. Yeah. and my arms will just start getting this huge swell pump.”— Demonstrates passive effect, broadening the use case.

Cycling mTOR supplements 5 days on, autophagy activators 2 days off (weekends)

WhatTake supplements that boost mTOR (e.g., creatine, NR, possibly others) Monday through Friday; reserve autophagy-promoting supplements (unspecified, but likely things like spermidine, resveratrol, or berberine) for Saturday and Sunday only.

WhenWeekly cycle: 5 days of anabolic support, 2 days of catabolic/cleanup focus.

DoseNo specific dosages given; Dave uses the supplements he already takes, just timed differently. The cycle is weekly.

For whomAnyone taking supplements aimed at both muscle/performance and longevity/autophagy who is concerned about signal interference. Dave adopted this after feedback from Siim Land.

WhymTOR and autophagy pathways have opposing functions; activating both simultaneously may produce conflicting cellular signals, potentially reducing the efficacy of either. Separating the by days allows a clear anabolic window and a distinct cellular cleanup window.

CaveatsThe specific supplements Dave uses for each are not fully listed, and the concept is theoretical—no clinical endpoint data. Individual response may vary. He hasn’t updated his website with the new regimen, so the exact pairing of which supplement goes in which bucket is unknown.

Dave’s old routine split the day: morning for mTOR, evening for autophagy. He figured that was good enough. After listening to Siim’s analysis on a previous podcast, he realized the signals still overlapped too much. Now he uses a 5/2 weekly cycle. He admits the change is recent and he hasn’t posted it online yet. Siim Land agrees that timing matters when mechanisms contradict. While there’s no direct proof that this cycling improves outcomes, it aligns with the concept of hormesis and intermittent activation, and it’s a low-risk experiment.

Mechanism

mTOR activation promotes protein synthesis, cell growth, and inhibits autophagy. Autophagy is a catabolic process that recycles damaged components. Chronic simultaneous activation may blunt the benefits of both: you could be hitting the gas and brakes at the same time. By time-separating, the body receives unambiguous signals, potentially making autophagy more effective on weekends and anabolic sessions more productive on weekdays.

Personal experience

Dave says: 'I'm trying to be more um just just more intentional about doing the autophagy activators only on weekends. Yeah. So I'm doing mtor you know 5 days on and then the two days off is more the autophagy stuff.' He previously did morning/evening split but considered it just for simplicity.

I'm doing mtor you know 5 days on and then the two days off is more the autophagy stuff.

Also said

“But now I'm trying to be more um just just more intentional about doing the autophagy activators only on weekends.”— Emphasizes the intentional shift from convenience to mechanism.

Early dinner (around 4 p.m.) for better sleep scores

WhatFinish eating dinner by approximately 4 p.m. to avoid digestion during sleep.

WhenDaily, whenever possible.

DoseNo specific meal size given; just the timing of the last meal.

For whomAnyone tracking sleep quality and noticing late-night eating negatively impacts metrics.

WhyDigesting food close to bedtime can disrupt sleep architecture, even if you don’t consciously feel it, worsening sleep scores (likely from a wearable).

CaveatsSocial events often prevent adherence. Dave accepts that resilience and metabolic flexibility allow deviations.

Mechanism

Digestion raises body temperature, heart rate, and insulin levels, which can interfere with the natural circadian drop in core temperature and slow-wave sleep initiation. Finishing by 4 p.m. gives a 5-6 hour digestion window before a typical 10 p.m. bedtime.

Personal experience

Dave says: 'I still like to eat my dinners about 4 4 p.m. if I can because it helps my sleep scores much better if I'm not digesting while I'm trying to sleep.' He also notes that even if he doesn't perceive a difference, his sleep tracker shows improvement.

I still like to eat my dinners about 4 4 p.m. if I can because it helps my sleep scores much better if I'm not digesting while I'm trying to sleep.

Supplement bin with numbered stickers for brainless daily pack

WhatKeep supplements in a bin under the bed; each bottle has a sticker with the number of pills to take; scoop the pills directly into a daily pill case without having to read labels each time.

WhenWhen filling up a pill case for the day/week.

DoseNot applicable.

For whomAnyone with a complex supplement regimen who wants to save time and avoid mistakes.

WhyReduces cognitive load and errors when taking a large number of supplements.

CaveatsYou must periodically verify the numbers and ensure bottles aren’t mixed up.

Personal experience

Dave: 'I have a a bin that I just keep underneath my bed… I have on the top of each bottle, I have a sticker with the number of pills in the bottle that I have to take out and put in my my case. So, when I'm packaging them all, I'm not even looking at what I'm taking. I just know that I need to take three of these and put them in there and two of these. Gotcha. So, that makes it brainless for me.'

I have on the top of each bottle, I have a sticker with the number of pills in the bottle that I have to take out and put in my my case.

Low-carb with occasional high-carb days for metabolic flexibility

WhatFollow a generally low-carbohydrate diet but periodically add high-carb meals to keep the metabolism able to switch between fat and glucose efficiently.

WhenContinuous low-carb, with high-carb days thrown in 'every so often.'

DoseNot quantified; pattern is irregular.

For whomPeople who normally eat low-carb but want to stay resilient to occasional higher carb meals without gut distress or metabolic sluggishness.

WhyMaintain metabolic flexibility so the body can handle both fats and carbs without negative reactions when diet deviates.

CaveatsIf you have severe carb intolerance or are on a therapeutic ketogenic diet, this may not apply.

Personal experience

Dave: 'I do low carb generally, but every so often I like to just like throw heavy carbs at my body just to make sure that I'm metabolically flexible.'

I do low carb generally, but every so often I like to just like throw heavy carbs at my body just to make sure that I'm metabolically flexible.

HMB for anti-catabolic support during marathon training

WhatTake HMB (beta-hydroxy beta-methylbutyrate) supplement to reduce muscle breakdown during high-volume endurance training like marathon prep.

WhenDuring run season, presumably daily or around runs.

DoseNot stated; Dave just says 'I take that.'

For whomEndurance athletes with a lean build who struggle to maintain muscle mass during prolonged training blocks.

WhyHMB is known to inhibit muscle protein breakdown, which is crucial for a slender person like Dave who tends to burn muscle during distance running even when carb intake increases.

CaveatsNot a magic bullet; Dave still loses muscle despite HMB, though presumably less than without. Siim Land also suggests ketone bodies might help.

Personal experience

After Dave mentions he burns through muscle quickly during marathons despite adding carbs, Siim suggests HMB as an anti-catabolic. Dave replies, 'HMBB is a good one. I take that.'

HMBB is a good one. I take that.

What's new

Personal practice updates, fresh positions, predictions

3 items

Gut sensitivity testing uncovered hidden food reactions

Dave took a gut sensitivity test on a whim, discovered he has immune-system sensitivities to mushrooms and hemp seeds—foods he ate daily—despite feeling no obvious bloating or discomfort. He also learned that casein, which the test said he tolerates, gives him severe gas, illustrating the difference between an immune sensitivity and a gut microbiome intolerance.

Why this matters: Even with a pristine diet, long-term frequent consumption of certain foods can trigger measurable immune responses that a traditional elimination diet might miss. The disconnect between the test result and his real-world casein reaction is a cautionary tale about interpreting food-sensitivity panels.

Background

Previously, Dave assumed he had no gut issues because he had no digestive symptoms. He ate mushrooms daily in his ‘spice bowl’ and hemp seeds regularly. The test was offered at a previous conference.

Dave describes how he didn’t expect any positive results because he felt fine. The test flagged mushrooms and hemp—two staples. The doctor explained that eating a food often can cause the immune system to react to it, even if the gut lining and microbiome aren’t producing symptoms. This means a positive result doesn’t necessarily mean you have a clinical intolerance; it might just reflect exposure. Conversely, casein was negative on the test, yet Dave gets dramatic bloating and gas from even a tiny amount, suggesting his gut bacteria, not his immune system, is the problem. The host Siim Land reinforces that if you have no symptoms, the test positivity may be irrelevant, but Dave’s casein experience shows the opposite: a real gut reaction can be missed by immune-focused tests. The takeaway is that food sensitivity tests are one data point, not a definitive guide, and real-world symptom tracking is essential.

Personal experience

Dave recalls his surprise: ‘I didn’t think I needed it cuz I didn’t realize I had any gut issues, but the sensitivity test came back to tell me that I have some sensitivities to some foods that I eat often.’ He then experimented and confirmed casein causes immediate bloating, while he continues to eat mushrooms without noticing any issues, leaving him uncertain what to cut out.

I didn’t think I needed it cuz I didn’t realize I had any gut issues, but uh the sensitivity test came back to tell me that I have some sensitivities to some foods that I eat often, right? Which was a big surprise to me.

Also said

“if I do even the slightest bit of casein I blow it up with gas something fierce so it's a difference between your gut microbiome being sensitive versus your immune system being sensitive.”— Connects the test limitation to real-world symptoms.

“because you're eating them so often, it's going to your immune system is, you know, quote unquote triggered towards that food and it might not necessarily indicate actual allergy or sensitivity.”— Host Siim Land explains why daily foods often show up as positives.

Shift from daily autophagy activators to weekends-only schedule

Dave previously took mTOR-boosting supplements in the morning and autophagy-activators in the evening every day. He now takes mTOR boosters 5 days a week and restricts autophagy activators to the weekend to avoid contradictory cellular signals.

Why this matters: Many longevity enthusiasts try to hit both mTOR and autophagy simultaneously. Dave’s pivot to a 5-on/2-off split reflects a practical concern that taking opposing pathways at the same time might blunt benefits, and it makes supplement adherence simpler.

Background

In his previous routine, Dave used to split timing: morning for muscle building (mTOR) and evening for cellular cleanup (autophagy). He did that mainly for simplicity. After the prior episode with Siim Land, he considered that the mechanisms might cancel each other.

Dave explains that the previous setup was ‘okay’ but that he’s now being ‘more intentional.’ He recognizes that mTOR (growth signals) and autophagy (recycling/cleanup) have opposing effects, and taking both daily could send mixed signals to cells. By concentrating autophagy activators on two consecutive days, he allows a clear window for cellular cleanup without competition from mTOR stimuli. He hasn’t updated his website yet with the new stack, but plans to. Siim Land confirms that timing is important when you have contradicting mechanisms from supplements; otherwise you question whether they’re actually working. The new schedule is a practical experiment in hormetic windows.

Personal experience

Dave says he did the morning/evening split for simplicity but is now changing: ‘I'm trying to be more um just just more intentional about doing the autophagy activators only on weekends.’ He is 5 days on mTOR, 2 days off for autophagy. He hasn’t reported specific results yet, but the change came from listening to Siim's earlier feedback.

I'm doing mtor you know 5 days on and then the two days off is more the autophagy stuff.

Also said

“I did particularly have my morning and evening supplements set up though where I would do more, um, mTor building things or, you know, mitochondrial enhancers in the morning and I would do more autophagy activating things in the evening, which, you know, it was okay. Um, I did that more for simplicity sake.”— Shows the evolution of his thinking from convenience to mechanistic intent.

Tart cherry juice replaced melatonin for sleep maintenance

Dave discovered that a shot of tart cherry juice before bed dramatically improves his ability to stay asleep through the night, whereas melatonin caused early waking and became ineffective after the first night.

Why this matters: It challenges the common assumption that melatonin supplementation is superior; tart cherry juice, a whole food source with melatonin and polyphenols, appears to support the body’s own melatonin production more effectively for some people.

Background

Dave has always had trouble with middle-of-the-night waking despite falling asleep easily. He tried melatonin but found it woke him at 4 a.m. and typically stopped working on the second night.

Dave’s problem is specifically sleep maintenance, not sleep onset. Melatonin, especially extended-release, often addresses sleep onset, but in his case it caused a paradoxical early-morning awakening. Tart cherry juice, rich in natural melatonin and antioxidants, improved his sleep consolidation dramatically. Siim Land adds that tart cherry juice may support the gut’s production of endogenous melatonin, offering a more physiological signal than exogenous melatonin. The juice also contains anti-inflammatory compounds that could reduce nighttime inflammation-driven awakenings. This suggests that whole-food melatonin sources might be better tolerated for individuals who wake during the night.

Personal experience

Dave says, ‘My favorite though is tart cherry juice. Really seems to help me stay asleep. I have no problem going to sleep. My problem is I wake up in the middle of the night, but if I do a shot of tart cherry juice, I can sleep straight through the night.’ He contrasts it with melatonin: ‘if I just do melatonin, I it'll wake me up at 4:00 a.m. and then I'm wide awake and I can't go back to sleep.’

Also said

“if I just do melatonin, I it'll wake me up at 4:00 a.m. and then I'm wide awake and I can't go back to sleep.”— Direct comparison explaining why he abandoned melatonin.

“There is it has like a lot of melatonin and uh it's powerful antioxidant. I think it your your gut produces melatonin, you know, with the tart cherry juice. So, it helps to produce your own indogenous supply.”— Host Siim Land provides the mechanistic rationale.

Recommendations

Products, supplements, and tools mentioned in the episode

8 items

Tart Cherry Juice

Supplement

Dave uses it as a natural sleep aid, preferring it over melatonin supplements. He takes a shot before bed.

vs alternatives

Compared to melatonin supplements: melatonin caused early waking and failed on day two; tart cherry juice consistently maintained sleep through the night.

Personal experience

See protocol entry for tart cherry juice.

My favorite though is tart cherry juice. Really seems to help me stay asleep.

Find Tart

Nicotinamide Riboside (NR)

Supplement

Dave takes NR (a NAD+ precursor) daily and notices a big difference when he stops.

one of the favorite things I like to take is nicotinomide ribocide. I notice that big time when I don't take it.

Find Nicotinamide

Creatine

Supplement

Part of his daily powder stack, likely for performance and muscle maintenance.

powder-wise, I I do take, you know, creatine.

Find Creatine

Alpha-Ketoglutarate (AKG)

Supplement

Mentioned as one of his 'must-haves' amino acid derivatives.

do alpha ketogluterate.

Find Alpha-Ketoglutarate

L-Glutamine

Supplement

Used for gut health, taken with creatine post-workout presumably.

I do llutamine for the gut. Got along with the creatine.

Find L-Glutamine

HMB (beta-hydroxy beta-methylbutyrate)

Supplement

Recommended by Siim Land as an anti-catabolic supplement, and Dave confirms he already takes it to combat muscle loss during running.

HMBB is a good one. I take that.

Find HMB

KAATSU Blood Flow Restriction Bands

Tool

Used by Dave for shoulder rehab and by Siim during daily activities. They are recommended for injury-friendly muscle building.

vs alternatives

Compared to heavy weight training: KAATSU reduces joint load while providing a similar anabolic signal.

Personal experience

Both Dave and Siim share personal anecdotes: Dave gets a pump even when not exercising; Siim wears them while typing to get the same effect.

if you're injured and you can't like do the full movement or the full weight, you put the katu bands and you get the same signal to your body with very light weights without damaging your joints even further.

Also said

“I can put them on and just go about my day, not even do a workout. Yeah. and my arms will just start getting this huge swell pump.”— Shows passive benefit.

Find KAATSU

P90X Workout Program

Product

Dave still uses P90X as his main workout program, now modified with lighter weights and KAATSU bands.

I'm still doing the P90X, but because I have the the shoulder issues... I'm doing my workouts now with lighter weight, but using uh katsu bands.

Find P90X

Notable quotes

Lines worth pulling out — contrarian, specific, or perfectly phrased

6 items

I thought, 'Oh man, this is going to be a takedown.' And I really did. I thought for sure like, 'Oh, he's just going to destroy me.' But it was it was so cool the way you were very respectful and you went through each and every thing that I was taking and the quantities that I was taking them in.

Captures the initial fear of having one’s supplement stack scrutinized and the relief of a constructive, respectful analysis—a common anxiety in the biohacking community.

My favorite though is tart cherry juice. Really seems to help me stay asleep. I have no problem going to sleep. My problem is I wake up in the middle of the night, but if I do a shot of tart cherry juice, I can sleep straight through the night.

A clear, anecdotal endorsement of a simple food-based intervention over pharmaceutical melatonin, with a very specific use case (sleep maintenance).

if I do even the slightest bit of casein I blow it up with gas something fierce so it's a difference between your gut microbiome being sensitive versus your immune system being sensitive.

Highlights the gap between lab tests and real-world tolerance; a memorable warning about interpreting food-sensitivity panels.

I'm doing mtor you know 5 days on and then the two days off is more the autophagy stuff.

Succinctly describes his new supplement cycling strategy, which is a conceptual shift in how longevity enthusiasts time their stacks.

I can put them on and just go about my day, not even do a workout. Yeah. and my arms will just start getting this huge swell pump. So, it looks like I just did a massive workout when I'm just going about, you know, the kitchen washing dishes.

A humorous but striking example of how blood flow restriction can cause visible muscle swelling even without exercise.

I don't know if you guys know this, but the seam had originally suggested we do a workout together. Yeah. And I was game, but I was I was very intimidated because, you know, you're like 30 years younger than me. So I'm like, 'Oh, please don't hurt the old man.'

Shows the playful dynamic and genuine respect between the 62-year-old and the host, while underscoring his self-awareness about age differences.

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Topics covered

tart-cherry-juicemelatonin-problemssupplement-cyclingmtor-autophagy-timingkaatsu-bandsblood-flow-restrictionshoulder-rehabstem-cell-therapygut-sensitivity-testfood-sensitivitiescasein-intolerancesleep-maintenanceearly-dinnermetabolic-flexibilitylow-carb-dietmarathon-trainingmuscle-loss-runninghmb-anti-cataboliccreatinenicotinamide-riboside

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Educational summary of the cited expert source — not medical advice. Open the source recording linked above and consult a qualified physician before acting on any protocol.