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Episode
Exercise Scientist Shares Myths About Zone 2 and HIIT Cardio
~171 min
Episode Brief·YouTube

Exercise Scientist Shares Myths About Zone 2 and HIIT Cardio

Siim Land
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TL;DR

The four things you'd lose by not watching

4 items

TL;DR

The four things you'd lose by not watching

4 items
1

Christy’s narrative review found no compelling evidence that zone 2 provides unique mitochondrial or fat-oxidative adaptations beyond what can be achieved with higher-intensity exercise.

2

The primary mechanism driving mitochondrial biogenesis — AMPK activation — requires metabolic stress that accumulates above the lactate threshold, not in the purely oxidative conditions of zone 2.

3

For the general public, deliberately staying in zone 2 may blunt benefits; accumulating volume in zone 3+ and incorporating HIIT is more time-efficient and evidence-based.

4

Elite athletes’ high mitochondrial content likely comes from the large absolute volume of intensity work, not the 80% of training time spent in zone 2 — a conflation driven by cross-sectional data.

Protocols

Concrete recipes — what, when, how much, and why

5 items

Accumulate volume above zone 2, recovering as tolerated

WhatInstead of deliberately doing zone 2, aim to accumulate as much training volume as possible at intensities above the lactate threshold (zone 3+), respecting individual recovery.
WhenAs your primary cardiovascular training, with frequency determined by how well you recover session to session.
DoseNo fixed volume; aim for 'as much volume as you can recover from' at an intensity above zone 2. For most people this might be 30-60 minutes of continuous work in zone 3/4.
For whomGeneral public interested in health and mitochondrial fitness, not professional endurance athletes.
WhyIntensity (above lactate threshold) is the primary driver of mitochondrial adaptations by activating AMPK through metabolic stress. Accumulating volume near VO2max also drives cardiorespiratory fitness improvements more efficiently than low-intensity work.
CaveatsRecovery depends on sleep, nutrition (especially carbohydrate replenishment), and overall life stress. Listen to your body: if legs are 'crushed' and performance drops, back off or insert lower-intensity days. Do not force high intensity when not recovered.

Christy’s recommendation emerges from the entire paper’s logic: since the benefits claimed for zone 2 (mitochondrial content, fat oxidative capacity, VO2max) are actually better achieved at higher intensities, the focus should be on accumulating as much volume as possible at those higher intensities without compromising recovery. She draws an analogy to resistance training: close proximity to failure is what drives adaptation, not light weights. In endurance metabolism, pushing beyond current capacity (above lactate threshold) forces the body to adapt so that the same workload becomes less metabolically stressful. She does not prescribe a fixed number because individual recovery capacity varies widely, but the guiding principle is to prioritize intensity over arbitrary heart-rate zone targets.

Mechanism

Mitochondrial biogenesis is primarily activated by AMPK, which is stimulated by the accumulation of AMP and ADP that occurs when ATP demand outpaces aerobic supply — i.e., when glycolytic flux increases, which happens above the lactate threshold. Staying in zone 2 avoids this metabolic stress, so it does not optimally trigger adaptation. Higher-intensity exercise also increases time spent near VO2max, which is the strongest stimulus for improving cardiorespiratory fitness.

Personal experience

Christy says she personally exercises for fun and often goes to exhaustion, but she does not follow a structured plan. She finds that HIIT has increased her tolerance for discomfort. She does note that if she were to accumulate a lot of HIIT on top of resistance training, she couldn't recover, so she would use zone 2 on those days for its lower CNS cost.

I personally would I would try and accumulate volume zone 3 plus and using intensity just to because it's time spent near VO2 max. So spending as much time as you can near your VO2 max to try and push your VO2 max up.

Also said
“The amount of volume you can accumulate that you can recover from that's what we should be focusing on.”— Adds the critical recovery constraint to the volume recommendation.
“When it comes to health, the amount of physical activity that you need is actually so small to reduce your risk of disease and mortality… just going from nothing to something drops your risk of mortality by like 60% or something crazy.”— Contextualizes that even minimal activity is beneficial, but optimization is for enthusiasts.

Pull lactate threshold up by training above it

WhatTo increase your lactate threshold (zone 2 ceiling), you should train above that threshold rather than trying to extend time below it.
WhenDuring cardiovascular training sessions aimed at improving metabolic fitness; incorporate periods above lactate threshold.
DoseInclude bouts at intensities that are near or slightly above lactate threshold until you reach the desired adaptation; could be continuous tempo efforts or interval work.
For whomAnyone wanting to improve metabolic flexibility and endurance performance.
WhyExercise above the lactate threshold creates the metabolic stress needed to activate signaling pathways that improve lactate clearance and fat oxidative capacity, effectively raising the threshold so you can work at higher outputs without accumulating lactate.
CaveatsMonitor recovery; this type of training is more demanding than zone 2 and requires adequate between-session rest.

Christy uses the metaphor of pulling the threshold up from above rather than trying to push it from below. She draws on systematic review evidence showing that in trained individuals, intensity is necessary to improve lactate threshold. The 2018 review indicated that even for mitochondrial improvements, you need to cross a certain intensity threshold. She argues that just like resistance training requires proximity to failure, metabolic training requires pushing beyond current capacity to force adaptation. This doesn’t mean all-out sprints; it can be sustained work slightly above threshold that you can maintain for, say, 20-40 minutes, accumulating volume where the metabolic stress is meaningful.

Mechanism

Training above the lactate threshold causes repeated exposure to elevated lactate and metabolic stress, which upregulates mitochondrial enzymes, monocarboxylate transporters, and buffering capacity, thereby raising the intensity at which lactate begins to accumulate.

When it comes to lactate threshold, so if you want to increase your zone 2, like be able to work out at a higher intensity without accumulating lactate, I also believe based on what the studies that I've come across that you you want to work out, you want to exercise above your lactate threshold to kind of pull it up instead of trying to like balloon below it and try and push it up.

Also said
“Giving yourself that stimulus in higher intensities to tell your body to adapt by turning on and activating these signaling pathways by pushing you beyond your capacity.”— Explains the adaptation signal.

HIIT 4x4 protocol (4-minute intervals)

WhatFour minutes of high-intensity work repeated four times, with recovery periods, at an intensity of 80-90% of max heart rate or near VO2max.
WhenAs a dedicated high-intensity session, 1-2 times per week depending on recovery and concurrent training.
Dose4x4 minutes work bouts, with recommended progression from shorter intervals (1 min, then 2, then 3, then 4 min) to build tolerance. Recovery duration not specified but typically 3-4 min active recovery.
For whomIndividuals who have built a base and can tolerate high-intensity sustained efforts; not recommended for beginners without progression.
WhyLonger intervals accumulate more time near VO2max, which is a strong driver of cardiorespiratory adaptations, compared to short sprint intervals. The 4x4 protocol is commonly used in the literature.
CaveatsChristy notes this is 'hard' and should be introduced gradually. Host Siim adds that it’s not a full sprint but 80-90% of max speed to sustain the 4 minutes.

The host Siim mentions that he has seen meta-analyses showing longer intervals (over 2 minutes) are superior to shorter ones, likely because they accumulate more volume at high intensity. Christy agrees with the volume logic. She notes that doing 4-minute intervals in the lab was eye-opening for her own tolerance. The progression from 1 to 4 minutes is important because jumping straight into 4-minute max-sustainable efforts is brutal. The protocol is not about sprinting flat-out; it's about sustaining a pace that keeps you at 80-90% of max heart rate for the full 4 minutes, which trains the body to buffer and clear lactate and improves aerobic power.

Mechanism

Spending prolonged time near VO2max maximizes the cardiovascular and metabolic stimulus, driving central (stroke volume, cardiac output) and peripheral (mitochondrial enzyme activity) adaptations. The sustained high energy demand strongly activates AMPK and PGC-1α pathways.

Personal experience

Christy: 'Doing them in the lab has been very I guess eye opening and has taught me new tolerance and uh my ability to I don't know withstand discomfort has just gone up since actually doing them.' Host: 'The 4-minut intervals are kind of brutal. And um you need to kind of graduate up from shorter ones like 1 minute first then 2 minutes, 3 minutes and 4 minutes.'

Doing the 4-minute intervals was eyeopening to what I can sustain. And so that that's the only thing that has changed is my my psychology around exercise.

Also said
“It's not actually that you're sprinting the entire time at max speed. You are at this 80% or 90% max heart rate which isn't full on sprinting. It's something like 80% of your full speed. So you sustain that speed for 4 minutes. That's where the adaptation comes from.”— Clarifies a common misconception about the intensity of 4-minute intervals.

Use zone 2 as active recovery when intensity interferes with resistance training

WhatIf you are doing a lot of high-intensity cardio or resistance training, use zone 2 on days you want to avoid additional CNS/structural fatigue.
WhenOn days between resistance training or high-intensity sessions, to accumulate additional aerobic volume without impairing recovery.
DoseVariable, depending on how much volume you can add without compromising your primary training goals; the host suggests he does it on days he doesn't lift.
For whomPeople who already do significant resistance training or HIIT and want to add more aerobic conditioning without overtraining.
WhyZone 2 is very low stress and doesn't cause significant physical damage or CNS exhaustion, so it can be used to add training volume that wouldn't be possible with higher intensities.
CaveatsThis is a pragmatic use of zone 2 for volume accumulation, not because zone 2 has unique mitochondrial benefits. The host notes he does hit once a week or once every two weeks, and uses zone 2 for his aerobic work to avoid interfering with lifting.

This protocol was more discussed by the host Siim, but Christy agrees. The host explained that he does zone 2 because adding a lot of HIIT would impede his recovery from resistance training. Zone 2's low intensity and low sympathetic drive make it a tool to increase total training volume without the cost of additional high-intensity stress. This aligns with Christy's broader point that elite athletes use zone 2 for low-cost volume, but the general public rarely needs it for that purpose because their volume isn't high enough to require it. However, for someone lifting heavy often, zone 2 can serve a recovery-friendly aerobic slot.

I do the zone two because it's low intensity and lower effort and it doesn't interfere with the resistance training goals and it's not going to cause extra exhaustion to my central nervous system so I can recover better for my resistance training sessions.

Use perceived recovery to guide training intensity distribution

WhatLet subjective recovery dictate how much high-intensity volume you perform, rather than rigidly following a polarized or pyramidal model.
WhenContinuously, on a day-to-day and week-to-week basis.
DoseConsider your sleep, nutrition (especially carbohydrate intake), and subjective fatigue. If you can't repeat a quality high-intensity session, insert lower-intensity work until recovered.
For whomAnyone trying to optimize training adaptations without structured coaching.
WhyRecovery from high-intensity training depends on glycogen replenishment, sleep, and life stress, which vary individually. Forcing a protocol when under-recovered could lead to overtraining or suboptimal adaptation.
CaveatsRequires honest self-assessment and may not suit those who prefer rigid schedules. Also, overreaching symptoms are not always obvious.

Christy emphasizes that the amount of intensity someone can accumulate is largely dictated by what they can recover from. She gives an example: if you do a HIIT session in the evening, don't adequately consume carbohydrates, and then attempt another interval session the next morning after poor sleep, your performance and recovery will be compromised. Therefore, rather than a fixed number of HIIT sessions, people should monitor how they feel and whether they can sustain performance. This approach is less prescriptive but grounded in the reality that recovery is the limiting factor for training volume at higher intensities.

Personal experience

Christy notes that she knows if she does intervals on the bike day in and day out, her legs get fatigued and she knows when she can't do it again. She lets that guide her to swap in lower-intensity work.

I know that if I do like intervals on the bike day in and day out I know that I'm tired and my legs are fatigued like I I know that I can't I I know when I can't do it again. um which I think people inherently they can listen to their body and maybe they'll do something else.

Also said
“Our recovery is going to be based on the things that we do outside of training and that's going to probably dictate how much volume we can accumulate at high intensities.”— Makes the case that recovery factors are individual and dictate training.

What's new

Personal practice updates, fresh positions, predictions

6 items

narrative-review-zone-2-mitochondria-fat-oxidation

Christy’s paper finds no unique mitochondrial or fat-burning benefit from zone 2 exercise that isn’t also induced by higher intensities.

Why this matters: Directly challenges the popular narrative that zone 2 is essential for mitochondrial health and fat adaptation, a claim widespread online.

Background

Prior to this review, popular blogs, longevity influencers, and even some scientists claimed zone 2 optimally stimulates mitochondrial biogenesis and fat-burning, often citing cross-sectional data from elite endurance athletes who do polarized training (80% zone 2, 20% high intensity).

The paper was a narrative review, not systematic, because very few training studies actually prescribe exercise below the lactate threshold. The team struggled to find studies that fit true zone 2 criteria. Consequently, they had to interpolate using percentages of work rate max, heart rate zones, or gas exchange thresholds. Their conclusion: the mechanistic theory behind zone 2 doesn’t match because AMPK activation requires metabolic stress (accumulation of AMP/ADP) that occurs when glycolysis kicks in at higher intensities. Zone 2, by definition, stays below that threshold, so it does not robustly activate the key signaling for mitochondrial adaptations. They also found mixed evidence at best for mitochondrial outcomes from zone 2 training, and much stronger evidence for intensity-driven adaptations. The paper also notes that most ‘moderate intensity continuous training’ in comparator studies is actually above zone 2 (zone 3/4), further muddying the online discourse.

I didn't find any evidence to suggest that we should be doing or prioritizing zone 2 over higher intensities because you can just get the benefits of on mitochondrial adaptations, our ability to burn fat … are supported with highintensity exercise or higher intensity exercise.

Also said
“We definitely struggled to find training studies or even acute studies that prescribed below lactate threshold.”— Highlights the evidence gap that prompted the review.
“The theory behind zone 2 and how it would support mitochondrial adaptations doesn't it there's a mismatch.”— Direct statement that the mechanistic logic fails for zone 2.

most-zone-2-studies-are-actually-above-zone-2

Many studies labelled ‘moderate intensity continuous training’ or used in meta-analyses as ‘endurance training’ are performed above the lactate threshold, meaning their benefits don’t apply to zone 2.

Why this matters: Reveals that much of the evidence cited to support zone 2 is actually evidence for zone 3 or higher, flipping the ‘endurance training is better’ narrative.

Background

Online, many proponents cite meta-analyses comparing HIIT to endurance training and conclude endurance training eventually yields similar or better VO2max gains. Christy points out those studies group all continuous training as ‘endurance’, ignoring lactate threshold demarcation.

When comparing HIIT vs. MICT (moderate intensity continuous training), the MICT arms often use intensities that fall in zone 3 or even zone 4, not zone 2. This matters because zone 2’s specific claim is that staying below lactate threshold produces unique fat-burning and mitochondrial benefits. If the studies showing benefits all use higher intensities, they don’t validate zone 2, they validate continuous training at higher intensities. Christy also dissected a specific study that some used to argue endurance training yields equal VO2max gains after weeks, showing it conflated long-duration continuous training (which is usually zone 3+) with true zone 2. She emphasized that the ‘endurance training’ group in those analyses almost certainly includes mostly zone 3+ continuous work, so the takeaway that zone 2 specifically leads to those adaptations is unsupported.

Most of our studies that use continuous training … that moderate intensity continuous training abbreviated to mict … often falls above zone 2. So when we're looking at like oh hit versus mict, it's really hit or sit sprint interval training … compared to continuous training, it's often okay, we're comparing zone three, maybe even four continuous training to zone 5 plus.

Also said
“After trying to find zone 2 papers, I would hedge my bets saying that that endurance training category includes mostly zone 3 plus continuous training.”— Reinforces that the entire category used to argue for zone 2 is mislabeled.

lactate-threshold-is-surprisingly-low

In healthy young people, lactate threshold can be as low as 60-70 watts on a bike, meaning even light jogging may exceed zone 2.

Why this matters: Undermines the assumption that people are actually training in zone 2 when they think they are; most recreational exercisers are likely above it.

Background

Zone 2 is defined by blood lactate ~1.7–2 mmol/L. Christy’s lab routinely measures lactate thresholds and finds them very low in recreationally active individuals.

Christy shared that a recreationally active, healthy 20-year-old university student often has a lactate threshold around 60-70 watts on a bike, which is very light. As soon as they start a light jog, they would be above zone 2. Therefore, many people who believe they are doing zone 2 training based on heart rate or perceived exertion are likely actually exercising in zone 3 or higher. This is not necessarily bad; in fact, it may be beneficial because it means they are automatically working at intensity levels that better stimulate mitochondrial adaptations. It also suggests that strict adherence to zone 2 prescriptions might not be possible for most without laboratory testing.

Personal experience

I measure lactate thresholds essentially every day. And it they are surprisingly low. So an individual, a recreationally active, healthy 20-year-old university student will have a lactate threshold of like 60 to 70 watts, which is which is very very light intensity.

zone 2 is extremely light exercise. Um, so honestly, I don't even know if people think they're doing zone 2, they are most likely above to be honest.

Also said
“As soon so as soon as they started like light jogging, they would be potentially above zone 2.”— Specifically illustrates how easy it is to exceed zone 2.

trained-individuals-require-more-intensity

A systematic review and recent meta-regression show that trained individuals do not increase mitochondrial content with endurance training and require intensity to keep adapting.

Why this matters: Contradicts the idea that higher-volume low-intensity work is enough for fitter people; intensity becomes necessary as fitness rises.

Background

The 2018 systematic review on mitochondrial adaptations and an older review on lactate threshold improvements both indicated that intensity is critical for already-trained people.

Christy referenced a 2018 systematic review covering 56 training studies, concluding that improvements in mitochondrial content or respiratory capacity would not be expected below 60% of work rate max, which is above zone 2 for most. She also discussed a more recent meta-analysis that split populations by training status and showed that in trained individuals, endurance training produced no increase in mitochondrial content, whereas HIIT and sprint interval training did. Additionally, an older systematic review on lactate threshold (a marker of fat oxidative capacity) found that in trained people, intensity is a key driver of improvements. This aligns with the principle that as people become more aerobically fit, they need greater metabolic stress to trigger further adaptations — analogous to resistance training where proximity to failure matters more than absolute load.

The more trained you are the more you require intensity to induce those adaptations. So there's actually no change in mitochondrial content … in the trained group who engaged in endurance training whereas in the hit in the sprint interval group there was.

Also said
“In trained individuals um intensity is important is a driver of improvements in lactate threshold.”— Extends the conclusion to fat oxidative capacity, which zone 2 claims to support.

zone-2-advice-may-disserve-active-people

If someone who already does higher-intensity exercise replaces it with zone 2 because of online messaging, they might blunt the adaptations they were getting.

Why this matters: Puts a specific warning on the practical consequence of the zone 2 hype for people who were already exercising effectively.

Background

The podcast context is that many health enthusiasts are now hearing they must include zone 2, leading them to substitute their existing higher-intensity workouts.

Christy is careful to say zone 2 is better than nothing and she’s happy if someone sedentary starts there. However, for someone already doing 30-minute runs, bike sessions, or HIIT and feeling good, the messaging that they need zone 2 could be a disservice: if they replace their intensity days with zone 2, they may lose the stronger mitochondrial and cardiorespiratory stimulus. She emphasizes that the goal isn’t to demonize zone 2 but to correct the evidence-free claim that it’s uniquely necessary. The real danger is that people who are already active might adopt a suboptimal volume of intensity under the false belief that zone 2 is optimal.

If someone's going from loving their 30 minute runs or bike sessions or hit sessions … and now they're seeing messaging online that they need to be doing zone 2. So now they're subbing in zone 2 for some of their higher intensity days. I think that's where that that could be a disservice and they might be now just blunting what they could be getting out of their exercise bout.

hit-two-a-day-was-tolerated-well

A study in her department doing two HIIT sessions per day for 3 weeks saw no overreaching symptoms, challenging fears of excessive intensity.

Why this matters: Contrasts with the concern that too much HIIT is dangerous or overly fatiguing, suggesting individual recovery capacity varies and many can handle more than assumed.

Background

The host raised the issue of mortality risk from excessive high-intensity volume. Christy was not familiar with that literature but offered anecdotal evidence from controlled studies.

In her department, they have done long-term HIIT interventions in clinical populations (cardiac rehab, insulin resistance, type 2 diabetes) multiple times per week following activity guidelines without issues. Additionally, a specific study attempted to overtrain participants by having them do a HIIT session in the morning and another in the evening, 5 days a week, for 3 weeks. They tested weekly for overreaching symptoms and never had to stop the protocol; participants tolerated it well. This suggests that with proper recovery and nutrition, many people can accumulate substantial intensity volume without overtraining. She also acknowledged that total recoverable volume depends on sleep, glycogen replenishment, and individual factors, so the upper limit is personal, not fixed.

They actually never reached the state of overreaching. Um so they would test them each week and make sure that they weren't getting symptoms of overreaching and they were fine up until the 3 week mark.

Also said
“We have hit trials that have gone on in our department here in individuals with insulin resistance, type two diabetes, like metabolic syndrome … come in three to five times a week and are able to do like following physical activity guidelines and keep on repeating intense exercise.”— Shows that clinical populations also tolerate regular HIIT within guidelines.

Recommendations

Products, supplements, and tools mentioned in the episode

1 item

Follow Christy Storoschuk on Instagram

Service

When asked where people can learn more about her work, Christy says she's most active on Instagram under @christystoreschuck (handle approximate). Also on Twitter and LinkedIn.

I guess I'm most active on Instagram, so my handle is just Christy Storeschuck, which I hope will be linked because I'm not spelling that one out.

Find Follow
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Personal experience

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DisclosureThe host, Siim Land, is the author. He mentions it in the closing of the episode.

Make sure you check out my new book, The Longevity Leap on Amazon.

Find The

Notable quotes

Lines worth pulling out — contrarian, specific, or perfectly phrased

5 items
It really isn't about oh zone 2 versus highintensity interval training. Like when it comes to health, the amount of physical activity that you need is actually so small to reduce your risk of disease and mortality. Just going from nothing to something drops your risk of mortality by like 60% or something crazy.
Succinctly reframes the polarized debate, highlighting that the foundational health benefit is simply moving, which deflates the urgency of the zone 2 vs HIIT war.
I'm not under the impression I didn't find any evidence to suggest that we should be doing or prioritizing zone 2 over higher intensities because you can just get the benefits of on mitochondrial adaptations, our ability to burn fat … are supported with highintensity exercise or higher intensity exercise.
The core takeaway of her review, stated bluntly by the expert herself.
Zone 2 is extremely light exercise. Um, so honestly, I don't even know if people think they're doing zone 2, they are most likely above to be honest.
A punchy reality check that undermines the precision of most zone 2 prescriptions for the average person.
If someone's going from loving their 30 minute runs or bike sessions or hit sessions … and now they're seeing messaging online that they need to be doing zone 2. So now they're subbing in zone 2 for some of their higher intensity days. I think that's where that that could be a disservice and they might be now just blunting what they could be getting out of their exercise bout.
A practical warning against the harm of misapplying zone 2 advice, directly addressing the podcast’s health-optimizing audience.
Life is not that serious. Your problems are probably not as big as you think.
The expert's closing piece of life advice, tying back to the theme that exercising shouldn't be overly complicated or stressful.

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Topics covered

zone-2-mythsmitochondrial-adaptationsampk-mechanismvo2max-healthpolarized-traininglactate-thresholdhiit-protocolsexercise-recoveryphysical-activity-guidelinesresearch-limitationstraining-study-designfasted-vs-fed-trainingfat-oxidation-capacityoverreachingglycogen-depletionelite-athletes-trainingred-light-therapybook-longevity-leap
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Educational summary of the cited expert source — not medical advice. Open the source recording linked above and consult a qualified physician before acting on any protocol.